Wlp023 Burton Ale - Sourness?

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ForkBoy

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Just kegged a batch of an ESB fermented with WLP023. It is a regular brew of mine, but first time using this yeast. It's turned out to have a slight sour aftertaste (sides of the tounge).

Is this a trait of this yeast or an infection?

Another brewer took a sample of the yeast (I split vials four ways and store each under cool boiled water), and his brew had a similar taste.

So, either that's how the yeast performs, or I've gotten a bad vial or infection during transfer.

Anyone else had experience with WLP023 care to share?

Cheers,
Matt
 
Hi ForkBoy,

From my limited experience this yeast lends lots of character to a beer. I'm not surprised you've got a flavour you've described as sour. This is not to rule out an infection though.

regards
Scott
 
I've used it a few times, ForkBoy, in bitters, porters and even an APA. I've never noticed a sour aftertaste with it. Certainly some esters, mainly fruity, but not over the top. I like it.

It could be some contamination I guess. How did you divide the vial? What was the recipe?

Edit: What yeasts have you used on this recipe before?
 
Nah, Fork, sourness is not a flavour I associate with Burton. As you know I'm building a starter from some dregs of my last tube of this yeast to pitch on an IPA and Porter. I'll save some of the porter for you to try. Fruitiness I've noticed, and sulphur on young examples, but not sourness. I reckon you and Ken are due for some Extreme Sanitation ;) I tasted my starter on the 200ml step and there was zero indication of sour.
 
It's interesting the different flavours that different people report from a single variety of yeast. Without consulting my records I think I've used this yeast three times. Once in a pale ale / bitter and twice in a porter. In the pale it was a dry bready flavour, no fruit, in the porter I think it accentuated the malt and gave a creamy flavour and mouth feel.

I think temperature has a lot to do with it. I think I need to get more adventurous and run my ales a couple of degrees warmer.

regards
Scott
 
The beers I've enjoy most with this yeast were brewed at 22C, SAH. My favourite was in the porter. :chug:
 
Top yeast for ESB had no problems.
It is a great yeast that accentuate/ boost bitterness levels.
sorry can't help
matti
 
hmm... sounds like a small infection (Grr!)

I was thinking it was meant to be a bit sour to balance the residual sugars of the IPAs/porters this yeast is reccommended for.

As for the starters, I was pretty (extremely!) careful splitting the vial

Boiled 1L water for ten minutes
Soak four Greolsch (sp?) bottles in iodophor for probably an hour
poured the cooled boiled water two bottles
shook and poured half the vial into each bottle, shook again then poured half of each into the remaining two bottles to end up with 1 vial split between four bottles under about 200mL sterile water.
all the time using alcohol to wipe down all surfaces regularly!

I suppose I may have gotten an airborne infection.

I guess I will have to go extra-extreme-sanitation next time - have to work on some new Extreme! procedures.

Either that or the original vial was contaminated.

Ah the rich tapestry that is brewing :)
 
One thing that jumps out at me though was cleaning those bottles. Iodophor is a great sanitiser, but not really much of a cleaner. You only need a few minutes contact to sanitise, but you need to check they are really clean first off. Napisan is my cleaner of choice, but bleach works fine on bottles. There are many others. Just rinse them off well, iodophor and away you go.

Also, when you split them, it's best to avoid leaving any headspace. So use small containers if possible, or top the bottles up.

I doubt the original was contaminated. It does sound like an infection, but maybe you can get some experienced local to give it a taste test for you.
 
It does sound like an infection, but maybe you can get some experienced local to give it a taste test for you.

There is a bottle of the second ESB waiting in my fridge for Scotty to taste. Better remember to ask him to come taste it!
 
Iused this yeast a lot a while back

I found it fruity but never sour.

I do remember it always ended up in the airlock, no mater how cool it was or how much headspace i had

Only way to stop it doing that was tyo open firment it and that worked great.

I dont split vials.

I tip it all in hte first firment and save some of the stronger yeast in bottles in the fridge.

never had a problem

i just soak the bottles in iodophur for 20 min, drain them and run some in through the tap after i have racked to secondary

easy

cheers
 
WLP023 is a great top cropping yeast. When the beer is at high krausen (is it OK to call it that with an English yeast?) you can scoop up to 50% of the foam into a sanitised bowl and pitch that into your next batch. The croppings can be stored for a couple of days in the fridge with Glad Wrap over the top. I've top cropped this yeast a couple of times, with great success. I use your method, Tony, for saving slurry of other yeasts, but the English foaming nutter yeasts are best sourced from the foam, imho.
 
Boiled 1L water for ten minutes
Soak four Greolsch (sp?) bottles in iodophor for probably an hour
poured the cooled boiled water two bottles
shook and poured half the vial into each bottle, shook again then poured half of each into the remaining two bottles to end up with 1 vial split between four bottles under about 200mL sterile water.
all the time using alcohol to wipe down all surfaces regularly!

I suppose I may have gotten an airborne infection.


But how did you get from the split yeast to pitching rate? Maybe the infection came from the starter?
 
I pitch the 1/4 vial into 2.5L starter, then into the main wort at krausen.

It must be further back in the process, as two seperate batches, brewed at different locations, using the same yeast sample both had similar flavour.
 
Strangest thing!

Now sampling the brew two weeks later, there is not a hint of the same sourness to it.

I have not experienced this before - usually if a beer is sour early on it only gets worse (typical infection).

anyway... happy days! I have 20L of a pretty decent ESB back on tap :)
 
Hi Fork,

SAH and I tasted the bottle of one of these beers left at my place last week. Likewise, no trace of the sourness, although 2 weeks ago it was sour enough to put down the glass.... (I ended up polishing off the 1l bottle the next day :)) 023 passes its beers through many phases.

Cheers,
PoMo.
 
I have brewed with WLP 023 a couple of times, both pitching low (a single vial for 30L and high, pitching 1L of pure white slurry. No sour notes, I have brewed at higher temps and you do get quiet a bit of fruit notes. What temp did you pitch and ferment at?
 
I would have pitched at probably 18 and fermented at 16 (ambient temp), not a lot of fruityness to this brew.

I guess it goes to show, a little conditioning can go a long way...
 
I would have pitched at probably 18 and fermented at 16 (ambient temp), not a lot of fruityness to this brew.

I guess it goes to show, a little conditioning can go a long way...

Drink straight from primary! :super:

When I use 023, I aim for 20-22C, the fruitiness is what Burton is special for.
 
I pitch the 1/4 vial into 2.5L starter, then into the main wort at krausen.
This could be stressing out your yeast. When I asked Chris White what was the appropriate size starter for a full tube, he told me 3 liters was good. When using only a quarter tube, I'd go with something small, like 500 ml (or maybe even less) and then bump it up to 2+ liters after it gets started -- that way has never caused problems for me.

I also generally don't pitch the whole starter when I make 2+ liters of starter, but that's a different topic. ;)
 
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