Will this work?

[OneEye]

I'm brewing up a few beer for an upcoming party in July. I'm fixing to brew a DIPA as I haven't for a while and I'm craving an over-the-top hop monster, however, I don't want to get my party guests maggoted after 2 pints. What I am thinking is this:

I have a system capable of double batches and was thinking that instead of brewing 40L of a DIPA I might kill two birds with one stone and make 30L of the 8.5% DIPA. I would then take 20L and ferment as usual, take the remaining 10L and top up with 10L of water, essentially making a pale ale.

Are there any foreseeable issues with this approach?

 

[2cranky]

Hey One Eye,
I think this is actually a technique. Is it Belgian?
You can do a brew from your first runnings, an OG of 1.080 with FG of 1.015 will give you 8.6%.
Then second runnings with OG 1.050 and FG 1.015 will give you 4.6%.
These were numbers I hit in a recent batch so,I could have split it.
It's maybe a bit trickier for your boil but you can tailor the hops for each one this way.
If you can just transfer the second runnings to another vessel while you are waiting for the kettle to free up.

 

[damoninja]

It will work and I've done it, however I did extra hop the diluted one.

What 2cranky has described is known as partigyle, it's particularly good if you brew bigger beers and don't have amazing efficiency. I've done this too, works better with big malty beers IMO, the last I did it I ended up with 20L of 10% coffee stout and 10L of 4.5% stout (equivalent OG/FG I can't remember), I did add a tiny bit of the higher OG wort to bump it up a fraction
.

I batch sparge so basically I collected my wort to the gravity that I wanted, calculated roughly how much I should be able to get out, added enough sparge water conservatively, ended up getting a little more out of it than I'd expected.

 

[2cranky]

It will work and I've done it, however I did extra hop the diluted one.

What 2cranky has described is known as partigyle, it's particularly good if you brew bigger beers and don't have amazing efficiency. I've done this too, works better with big malty beers IMO, the last I did it I ended up with 20L of 10% coffee stout and 10L of 4.5% stout (equivalent OG/FG I can't remember), I did add a tiny bit of the higher OG wort to bump it up a fraction
.

I batch sparge so basically I collected my wort to the gravity that I wanted, calculated roughly how much I should be able to get out, added enough sparge water conservatively, ended up getting a little more out of it than I'd expected.

nice!
http://beersmith.com/blog/2011/10/07/parti-gyle-brewing-two-beers-from-one-mash/

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I'm brewing up a few beer for an upcoming party in July. I'm fixing to brew a DIPA as I haven't for a while and I'm craving an over-the-top hop monster, however, I don't want to get my party guests maggoted after 2 pints. What I am thinking is this:

I have a system capable of double batches and was thinking that instead of brewing 40L of a DIPA I might kill two birds with one stone and make 30L of the 8.5% DIPA. I would then take 20L and ferment as usual, take the remaining 10L and top up with 10L of water, essentially making a pale ale.

Are there any foreseeable issues with this approach?

No issues at all as long as the diluting water is sanitary. It would have been done countless times around the world.
I suspect that's all the megaswill brewers do to make their light beers. I could be wrong but wouldn't be surprized.
In fact you've inspired me to give it a go. I make 15lt cubed wort that you dilute to 20lt brews. Same when you buy fresh wort in 15lt cubes. Make the wort heavy gravity and dilute with water when you ferment it.
A plan for me is to make 40lt heavy gravity wort then split it to make a 40lt (dilution of 30lt wort + 10lt water )
With the other 19lt brew of(10lt wort, 9lt water dilution) for a light version of the same beer. Double brew from a single brew etc.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Beer made with second running's is traditionally called "small beer" isn't it?

Used for every day beverage (not to get you pissed) when town water supplies were shit.

 

[pirateagenda]

i did it just this week and both are fermenting now. brewed 65L of 1.074 wort for a double IPA, 40L to the first fermenter, then added 15L to the remaining 25L to bring it to 1.045 for a session IPA.

Both fermenting well and smelling delicious.

 

[OneEye]

I'm sold. Going to give this a go on Sunday. Plan is to brew 32 litres @ 1.072. 21 to first fermenter and 11 to the second which will be topped up with 10L. BeerSmith tells me I'll get 21L @ 1.038. Nice session beer hopefully!

 

[abyss]

Would this also work after fermentation ?

 

[Blind Dog]

Would this also work after fermentation ?

Yes. Water needs to be sanitary and deoxygenised if you plan on keeping it for any length of time.

 

[abyss]

Would cool boiled do the job mate ?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Would this also work after fermentation ?

I don't believe so. Dilute with what? soda water will probably have oxygen in it.
My uneducated take on it. Its like cooking. The whole thing is better as one cook, or brew etc. If you make something that finished too rich and then dilute with water then it tastes like its been diluted with water (after the blend thing of cooking or brewing) yuck!.
I have beer on tap and soda water on tap all home made. Say you have an excellent IPA that's so yummy but its 7%. To think that you can just dilute it wit pure carbonated water to thin it out to say 5% then it wont taste as good as a brew that finished fermenting at 5%.
I hope that makes sense.
My impression (for home brewing) is that dilution pre ferment is the go no worries. All good for blended flavour etc.

Dilution after ferment is not so good. Not for the home brewer. Unless you have very good equipment and skills to dilute with deoxygenated carbonated water etc.

 

[abyss]

Fair enough, the idea just had me thinking and thanks.

 

[MHB]

Beer made with second running's is traditionally called "small beer" isn't it?

Used for every day beverage (not to get you pissed) when town water supplies were shit.

Small beer was generally Third Runnings. Tho there are plenty of variations, in Belgian historic beer Triple, Double and Single come from the same process, in the English called Strong, Ordinary and Small Ale, often under 1% ABV, but safer than the water...
Brewers (wrongly) thought of it as 1st, 2nd and 3rd mashing's, rather than what are really in effect just first runnings and two batch sparges, interesting how much the history of brewing is reflected in modern styles.
Mark

 

[Danscraftbeer]

My interpretation of small beer in the past ages was the last sparges of the mash. This is in my fears at the moment of getting Tannins from the grain with the last brewable sugars. Probably astringent but served its purpose like the old Saison. People were far more resourceful in the old days nothing could get wasted.
First worts were for the kings and queens, upper families and the last sparges made as an inoculated beverage for the workers that was sanitary enough to last through hot dry seasons in a lack of fresh water supply. It was not prize winning beer for sure but it wouldn't make you sick and had a bit of alcohol to it as a bonus but would not let the workers get too wasted or dehydrated either.
Brilliance in beer history.
:chug:

 

[Blind Dog]

I don't believe so. Dilute with what? soda water will probably have oxygen in it.
My uneducated take on it. Its like cooking. The whole thing is better as one cook, or brew etc. If you make something that finished too rich and then dilute with water then it tastes like its been diluted with water (after the blend thing of cooking or brewing) yuck!.
I have beer on tap and soda water on tap all home made. Say you have an excellent IPA that's so yummy but its 7%. To think that you can just dilute it wit pure carbonated water to thin it out to say 5% then it wont taste as good as a brew that finished fermenting at 5%.
I hope that makes sense.
My impression (for home brewing) is that dilution pre ferment is the go no worries. All good for blended flavour etc.

Dilution after ferment is not so good. Not for the home brewer. Unless you have very good equipment and skills to dilute with deoxygenated carbonated water etc.

Have to disagree. It works just fine with plain boiled then cooled water. I dont do it often, but have done it often enough to know it works just fine. Never tried it with carbonated waiter, and have no idea if that works and have my doubts. But mine always gets a week or two post dilution to carb up and mature, and is absolutely fine.

 

[stuartf]

I'm brewing up a few beer for an upcoming party in July. I'm fixing to brew a DIPA as I haven't for a while and I'm craving an over-the-top hop monster, however, I don't want to get my party guests maggoted after 2 pints. What I am thinking is this:

I have a system capable of double batches and was thinking that instead of brewing 40L of a DIPA I might kill two birds with one stone and make 30L of the 8.5% DIPA. I would then take 20L and ferment as usual, take the remaining 10L and top up with 10L of water, essentially making a pale ale.

Are there any foreseeable issues with this approach?

Did this yesterday for the first time as I had a few empty kegs. Made a 1.086 og bitter in my grainfather then split into 2 fermenters and topped up with cooled boiled water to make 2 20l brews. Using different yeasts in each then planning to dry hop one to have 2 different beers.

 

[OneEye]

I brewed yesterday and currently have two fermenters off and running. One @ 1.072 the other @ 1.040. Will report back with results

 

[Lionman]

This sounds like a great way to knock out 2 batches of pale ale from one IIPA mash. Problem is they will be pretty much the same as I would need a second kettle to boil the water for dilution to cube them separately. Unless I do a hop tea for each and/or use a different yeast.

Would it work if I cubed half of each batch to 2x 23L cubes (half fill them), then cleaned the kettle and boiled another 23L of water to top the cubes up? Risk of infection or will it be good? It takes a while for the kettle to reach boiling point which is my worry, but the cubes should still be full of fairly hot wort at the end.

 

[Lionman]

Would it work if I cubed half of each batch to 2x 23L cubes (half fill them), then cleaned the kettle and boiled another 23L of water to top the cubes up?

Risk of infection or will it be good?

It takes a while for the kettle to reach boiling point which is my worry, but the cubes should still be full of fairly hot wort at the end.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

How would I calculate what the temp of the wort will be after topping the cubes up with boiling water?