Why Don't All Strains Dry?

[RobB]

I have had a look through Chris White's "Yeast" and scoured this new fangled interweb thingy, but I can't find why some strains of yeast are able to be dried while others can't.

Is their a single governing characteristic which indicates that a yeast is able to survive the drying process? I've got this image in my mind of a bloke in a lab coat, looking into a microscope going "phwoar, nice lipids....."

I think it's pretty exciting that we have had a few new dry yeasts introduced recently and I was wondering which other strains might be in line for this process and which strains will simply never make it.

Any mycologists out there?

 

[hoppy2B]

I don't think I have ever seen anything but a dry wine yeast.
I'd be surprised if all yeast couldn't be dried. Some companies seem to just make liquid yeast and they may have their strains covered by patent.

 

[Screwtop]

Like all questions commercial...................................... if in doubt, tick cost!

Screwy

 

[manticle]

I don't think I have ever seen anything but a dry wine yeast.
I'd be surprised if all yeast couldn't be dried. Some companies seem to just make liquid yeast and they may have their strains covered by patent.

What are you talking about?

 

[black_labb]

What are you talking about?

I think he's talking about the strains that they pinched from a brewery and then patented... but that didn't happen

 

[slash22000]

To sell more expensive liquid yeast, I would imagine.

I don't want to come off as a conspiracy theorist or anything but aside from the variety liquid yeast has every disadvantage. It dies about an hour out of the factory door, you need to **** around with making starters, you can't post it anywhere without an FBI escort in a liquid nitrogen container, it costs twice as much for half the yeast ...

... Okay so I'm exaggerating (slightly) but seriously, I'd be interested to know the answer to this question.

 

[bum]

Demand.

 

[Womball]

The thing I remember about this after listening to hours of podcasts on brewing is that some yeasts are better suited to the drying/rehydration process than others......They are able to survive. I believe the process for manufacturing dried yeast has got much better in the past few years and it's likely the more dried yeast strains will become available in time.

 

[jc64]

This is a great question, as far as I know everyone who promotes the use of liquid yeast cites the variety available as the number one reason to purchase them. Then they use WLP001 for most beers anyway.

I do like trying out other types of yeast, at present I have a oatmeal stout with s-04 fermenting alongside a Irish Red with WLP028. So I do use liquid yeasts but would use dry every time if it was the same strain.

 

[Logman]

I read in a Coopers thread the other day that Coopers have not been able to successfully develop their yeast as a dry yeast and that's why you have to make a starter from the bottles. The thread made it sound as though they gave it a go but weren't able to.

That info could be wrong though I guess...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Longman you are correct. I spoke to Dr Tim about it and it won't dry successfully . They are keen to use their commerciall yeast for kits but it just won't work. They had to find a dry yeast that was similar for their kits. That's why they promote making starters from bottles. Bottle and keg yeast are the same.

 

[Yob]

And they sell more bottles

 

[hoppy2B]

What are you talking about?

Once upon a time there was no such thing as dried yeast. In the wine yeast category I am unable to find or have never seen a liquid wine yeast advertised for sale as far as I can remember.
Yeast drying tech is improving all the time and I would be surprised if there isn't a company out there with the tech to dry Coopers yeast.

 

[Bribie G]

I don't know if Coopers produce their own kit yeast, if not then Mauri at Toowoomba are the only yeast drying mob in Australia AFAIK so I guess it's a very technical and specialised operation. Mauri do the bread yeasts by the tanker load and HB is a sideline.

If most strains could be dried then you can bet that Wyeast or some other US company would be cranking them out in bulk so you don't have to do the smack and starter routine. From US forums it seems that, as here and the UK, they still rely on good old Danstar etc.

Edit: I used Edme dried yeast in the late 60s onwards, so I don't know how far back you want to go.

 

[bum]

It is an expensive process and the break-even point is at ridiculous volumes (in terms of production and sales - this process isn't "small batch" friendly as I hear it). There won't ever be a direct mapping between liquid and dry yeast varieties (unless the arse falls right out of the liquid yeast market, I guess).

 

[Logman]

It is an expensive process and the break-even point is at ridiculous volumes (in terms of production and sales - this process isn't "small batch" friendly as I hear it). There won't ever be a direct mapping between liquid and dry yeast varieties (unless the arse falls right out of the liquid yeast market, I guess).

I guess this begs the question as to how Coopers tried to produce their yeast as a dry strain i.e. did they try to get someone to do it or did they make some sort of attempt of their own. It makes sense that they could have justified decent expenditure on trying given that it would have gone in all of their kits, plus the fact that it was popular amongst home brewers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Coopers use Mauri for their kit yeast.

 

[Yob]

They have a yeast lab on site and a resident yeast guy.. Paul used to have to run away and ask him questions when I drilled him about Coopers yeast questions... So presumably on site

 

[growler]

My 2c

I think Coopers uses 2 different yeast types for their kits.

Back in my K&K days I noticed the more expensive kits had INT stamped with the date on the outside of the yeast sachet and the texture was a mixture of large and small particles of different colours.... relatively speaking of course!

The standard kits all had the same size particles that were the same colour.

.... but....I know bugga all really.

G.

 

[DUANNE]

To sell more expensive liquid yeast, I would imagine.

I don't want to come off as a conspiracy theorist or anything but aside from the variety liquid yeast has every disadvantage. It dies about an hour out of the factory door, you need to **** around with making starters, you can't post it anywhere without an FBI escort in a liquid nitrogen container, it costs twice as much for half the yeast ...

... Okay so I'm exaggerating (slightly) but seriously, I'd be interested to know the answer to this question.

so danstar and fermentis are only interested in selling more liquid yeast? im sure that if it was possible these guys would have a lot more strains on offer and if the saison and west coast ale yeast releases are anything to go by then they are working on it.