Why do ALL of my can kits taste bad?

[pcmfisher]

Hi Guys..

Well I hadn't done a Coopers Pale for years, but did 2 earlier this month and I have to say I could not tell the diff between that and at the pub.. only the cost.....

I brewed them both in plastic and than kegged.. I have attached 2 pic with my readings, and btw the fermenters I have been using are now around 10 years old and still good to go.

And just used the yeast as is no stuffing around....

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rgds
Chris

I must be doing something wrong as mine tasted nothing like the pub stuff. Not bad (for a k&k) but not like you get at the pub.

I suspect that if the real stuff tasted anything like mine or your kit brews they wouldn't sell very much.

 

[Barge]

I must be doing something wrong as mine tasted nothing like the pub stuff. Not bad (for a k&k) but not like you get at the pub.

I suspect that if the real stuff tasted anything like mine or your kit brews they wouldn't sell very much.

FTFY

 

[Lionman]

Tempted to do a kit again now to see if they are **** or not...

 

[fungrel]

A quick read through this thread has me wondering about the "tinny taste" of kit brews. I wonder if it's excessive mineral content?

e.g., if I were to make a standard all grain batch, dehydrate it, then later re-hydrate it I would have doubled the mineral content of the beer from the water supply.

I partly agree. I've made extract brews from RO adjusted to pH 5.2 and I challenge anyone to pick that the beer was made from extract.

I think the "tinny taste" you're referring to is more a combination of different factors, and mineral content is only one facet of the overall picture.

 

[Hangover68]

Tempted to do a kit again now to see if they are **** or not...

I was tasting a mates Coopers IPA last week and i was surprised how good it was, nearly as good as my AG IPA.
I did a morgan's pilsner 3 weeks ago and its just started to condition properly but first tastes were disapointing, still early days for a pilsner so it should get better.

 

[PaulG79]

First time I tasted that Coopers IPA I didn't love it cos I'm more used to American IPA's and didn't realise the Coopers one was more UK style. But after I tasted a few UK IPA's from Dan's, wow, that Coopers kit is good. I couldn't pick much difference between it and some of the award winning older style UK ones.

 

[david effer]

So this has me stumped.

I’ve been brewing for about 8 years. I started with Coopers kits and I could never get them to taste even remotely good. It’s a miracle that I persevered with brewing after so much disappointment but thankfully when I moved to extracts (and all grain soon after) my beers became tasty and I’ve been brewing quite happily ever since.

Recently I brewed a few all grain batches of a Coopers Pale Ale clone. I re-cultured the yeast from a bottle of the Coopers beer and while my attempts didn’t taste exactly like the original, they tasted every bit as good.

Next up i thought why not get back to my roots and try a Coopers Australian Pale Ale can of goo to see if it would taste closer to the real deal (after all, Coopers should know how to make a brew that tastes like their own beer right?). I used a fairly fresh Can (from my LHBS), Brew Enhancer 2, rehydrated the kit yeast, sanitised everything, fermented with temp control and the result was something I hadn’t tasted or smelled in many years - ****** homebrew. It’s thin and cidery, the bubbles are big, the head dissipates quickly and it has a pungent stink just like all the kit beers I made when I was starting out. The taste is bland and it has that signature “bad homebrew” aftertaste. I aged it a few weeks in the keg and it didn’t help much.

OK so my first thought was that the yeast is bad. I’ve heard warnings about using the yeast that comes with cans of goo and I know Coopers uses an Ale/Lager blend with their Australian Pale Ale kit that’s completely different to the yeast they use in their commercial example.

So next I started again with a fresh Coopers Pale Ale Can and BE2, but this time I re-cultured a healthy pitch of real coopers yeast, the stuff that I’ve been using in my all-grain batches. The result - equally ****** homebrew. It’s got a slightly different character, but the signature stink, bad aftertaste, poor head and artificial bitterness are all the same. It’s exactly the kind of beer that gives homebrew a bad reputation.

So my AG batches turned out great but the kits turned out almost undrinkable (I can’t even palm them off to my in-laws). I’ve ruled out the yeast, the fermentation temperature, and serving (I kegged and force carbed them all). I don’t see anything in my process that would make the kits taste bad. My only remaining conclusion is that these Coopers can kits are just rubbish.

So here’s what’s got me beat… The staff at both of my LHBSs think that canned kits are great. There’s an entire coopers forum filled with people who think these kits are the duck’s nuts (including the Aussie Pale Ale kit). Heck, I’m posting this in a sub-forum of AHB that’s dedicated to kits and extracts and filled with brewers with far more experience than I have. I *must* be doing something wrong.

I am humbled by my repeated failure to brew decent beer with these kits and I really respect the knowledge amongst my fellow brewers on AHB. Is there something else I should try or am I beating a dead horse expecting these kits to taste like commercial quality beer?

try using filtered water,,we always used rainwater,until we installed filters,,it did improve the taste but then again i always brewed coopers pale ale kits and never had a complaint, even from mates who always drink comercial coopers

 

[Kenf]

I remember that “home brew” taste! I brew AG and I also get the Coopers monthly Craft brew kits - to try different tastes And occasionally I will put down a kit beer (Coopers/ Morgan’s/ what ever)
And I just don’t get those tastes anymore?
I use either a Modern Coopers fermenter (the one without the airlock hole), a stainless fermenter and a converted 9 litre keg and nobody has ever picked up its home brew!
Maybe over time my techniques have improved.
But now I’m curious why?
Cheers

 

[altone]

I remember that “home brew” taste! I brew AG and I also get the Coopers monthly Craft brew kits - to try different tastes And occasionally I will put down a kit beer (Coopers/ Morgan’s/ what ever)
And I just don’t get those tastes anymore?
I use either a Modern Coopers fermenter (the one without the airlock hole), a stainless fermenter and a converted 9 litre keg and nobody has ever picked up its home brew!
Maybe over time my techniques have improved.
But now I’m curious why?
Cheers

Same here, I'm currently drinking my first can brew for a very long time and it tastes fine.
A bit bland but fine otherwise - I need to do more additions to the next one.
The only thing I KNOW I'm doing differently now is removing Chlorine from the water.

After doing AG for a long time guess my whole process is a bit more precise, but that's the only actual conscious difference
I've made to the process.
Always used bought yeast not use the kit one, added malt extract, temp control was the same etc. etc.

 

[Barry]

There is a significant difference between fresh extract/kits and extract/kits that have been sitting around too long. Often the “kit” taste comes from non fresh extract in my experience.

 

[Kenf]

I actually had a Great Northern clone off the tap last night, it was made from extract cans and it tasted fine. I think that because I don’t ever use cane sugar, tend to manage ferment temps better and make sure cleaning and sanitation is done properly makes a world of difference!
Plus I remember when I started brewing 25 or so years ago I tended not to wait the two weeks after bottling!

 

[DrJez]

Kits are sh!t Brewed them for years before going all grain and finally being satisfied

I think it's possibly the no boil. So many critters, it's ludicrous to even consider

 

[unyeasted]

I recently went back to kits due to having kids and no time for AG brewing. I had hoped they'd be better than they were in the old days but I had the same experience as you - not good! I have been thinking one possibility is that I'm using a carbon filter to remove chlorine and it may be harbouring infection I'd normally knock out with full boils.

Ducatiboy's comments are promising though, I'll persist a few more.

Interesting. I thought that once too.

 

[chiefbrewlord]

I've made some great kit brews. I always use temp control, lower end of fermentation reconditioned (16 deg.cel) for ales, DME, dextrose and never came sugar. Also dry hopping really adds so much additional complexity. I also hydrate my yeast before it goes in. That's my tips..

 

[TheBigD]

I just brewed a basic 21 litre brew with coopers Canadian blonde, BE3 and kit yeast (rehydrated) it fermented out at 21degrees and was finished in 4 days so I cold crashed for another 4 days then straight into the keg and forced carbed and it sat in the kegerator for a week( only because I went away), it has no twang and no green taste what so ever.
I was very surprized, I did taste it before I went away and it was just as drinkable then if not a little hazy but its crystal clear now.

 

[westo2014]

This thread is exactly where im at. A mate of mine has convinced me that he makes good kit beers without the twang etc so I'm making a return to kit brewing. all i got 20 years ago was mostly good old crappy twangy home brew.

What I'm taking from this tread is

1. Water treatment, filtered and boiled
2. Yeast change
3. Sanitation routines
4. Hops
5. Fermenting temperature control


This is in my mind, Additional free amino nitrogen to the wort (how to brew discusses the effects of a deficit in kits and extracts).

Has anyone tried adding free amino nitrogen to their wort? Or kraeusening?

Much appreciate your opinions im not going to give up.

I'll podt with results, once I get into it

 

[jackgym]

I used to get the dreaded "twang" 30 years ago.
But today brewing ales at 18 deg in a fridge using:
1 can Aust. Pale Ale
1kg dry malt
25g each of Nelson Sauvin, Amarillo, Chinook hops
US-05 yeast
in a Coopers fermenter, I make a very tasty beer.
It's so good that commercial beer has no taste whatsoever.

 

[koshari]

I used to get the dreaded "twang" 30 years ago.
But today brewing ales at 18 deg in a fridge using:
1 can Aust. Pale Ale
1kg dry malt
25g each of Nelson Sauvin, Amarillo, Chinook hops
US-05 yeast
in a Coopers fermenter, I make a very tasty beer.
It's so good that commercial beer has no taste whatsoever.

the bolded bit hits the nail on the head,

jacks recipe is very typical of the brews i pump out,
i pretty much do a can of lager kit (really only to get some bitterness without having to do a boil) , 2500grams LME in 40l , and steep 500g of crystal malt for added body, nuttiness and head retention. i also throw in round 150g of dry hopping.

Heres an example, a mate of mine brews EXACTLY the same recipe as me ( he got it of me because he loves this recipe) . last year he had an issue with his temp controller and a batch got up to 25 degree. we normally keep it at 18. the difference was night and day, he ended up pouring that batch down the the drain. i really think you cannot stress enough how much difference good temp control makes.

another indicator that i go by, after a well brewed batch you will have hardly any krausen ring round the top of the fermenting vessel, IMO if there is an inch thick sludgy ring round the fermenter wall your yeast has gone off far to aggressively.

 

[jackgym]

the bolded bit hits the nail on the head,

jacks recipe is very typical of the brews i pump out,
i pretty much do a can of lager kit (really only to get some bitterness without having to do a boil) , 2500grams LME in 40l , and steep 500g of crystal malt for added body, nuttiness and head retention. i also throw in round 150g of dry hopping.

Heres an example, a mate of mine brews EXACTLY the same recipe as me ( he got it of me because he loves this recipe) . last year he had an issue with his temp controller and a batch got up to 25 degree. we normally keep it at 18. the difference was night and day, he ended up pouring that batch down the the drain. i really think you cannot stress enough how much difference good temp control makes.

another indicator that i go by, after a well brewed batch you will have hardly any krausen ring round the top of the fermenting vessel, IMO if there is an inch thick sludgy ring round the fermenter wall your yeast has gone off far to aggressively.

That's the effect of the constant temp. Years ago when the fermenter sat between, say, 15 and 30 degrees, the krausen sludge blew all over the top of the fermenter and out the airlock. (BTW I don't use an airlock now).

 

[koshari]

That's the effect of the constant temp. Years ago when the fermenter sat between, say, 15 and 30 degrees, the krausen sludge blew all over the top of the fermenter and out the airlock. (BTW I don't use an airlock now).

i still use the airlock basically just as a poor mans releif valve and because the hole is there, if it wasn’t i would prolly just not screw the lid as tight so any residual pressure could escape rather than splitting the fermenter. i could place a relief valve there i suppose but its the least of my concerns.