Why 3.8ABV%?

[Foonz]

Hey all,
Last night we did our hopefully second last test on our brew with the result of 1.011. Our original starting gravity was 1.040. With the brew tracker app the calculations came out to be 3.8 abv %. Can anyone help us understand why our brew came out a mid strength?

Coopers Pale Ale malt extract
Coopers brew enhancer #2
25g of cascade hops
Coopers yeast (came with malt extract)
22.5L of Woolworths bottled water
Temp around 20 - 22 degrees Celsius

Thank you!

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I would assume it was the yeast you used, best to swap it out with with a better one.

 

[MHB]

Brew enhancers can be a bit of a mystery bag, I think #2 is about 40$ Maltodextrin, it is pretty unfermentable and its there to add body to the beer (=more/higher FG) - the tradeoff is reduced alcohol.
I doubt that any other yeast would have done any better, adding some dextrose will add more alcohol, use a 1,5kg can of malt extract will give more alcohol, body and flavour (costs more to, but that's the way it goes)
Mark

 

[Foonz]

I would assume it was the yeast you used, best to swap it out with with a better one.

So yeast isn’t great in those kits? Could it be the enhancer not having enough sugar?

 

[MHB]

Actually its a great (if a little bland) yeast, worst thing you could say about the kit is that there isn't really enough of it in there (6g isn't the best).
If you look at the apparent attenuation of your brew its 72% well within the range you would expect.
You need to realise that all sugars aren't the same, Maltodextrin is a sugar - just an unfermentable one, so if you want more alcohol you need more fermentable sugars. Lactose is another unfermentable sugar, add as much as you like, it wont increase the ABV a whit.
Mark

 

[Foonz]

Actually its a great (if a little bland) yeast, worst thing you could say about the kit is that there isn't really enough of it in there (6g isn't the best).
If you look at the apparent attenuation of your brew its 72% well within the range you would expect.
You need to realise that all sugars aren't the same, Maltodextrin is a sugar - just an unfermentable one, so if you want more alcohol you need more fermentable sugars. Lactose is another unfermentable sugar, add as much as you like, it wont increase the ABV a whit.
Mark

Cheers Mark,
Just to make sure I understand correctly the ABV% we GoT is within the expected range? If we had have used a 1kg instead of the enhancer we would have had a stronger beer?

 

[MHB]

Pretty much, To calculate ABV, its the change in gravity/7.5, easiest to work in "points" so in your case OG 1.040, FG 1.011 we call it 40-11=29, (change/7.5 = ABV), 29/7.5 = 3.87%
Your Brew Enhancer had about 400g of non fermentable sugars (Maltodextrin) if that was all fermentable you would get more alcohol and a lower FG. If you added 500g of Dextrose your OG would go up but your FG would be about the same and you would have more alcohol to.
Tends to be a tradeoff between body and alcohol.
Mark

 

[Coodgee]

So, to calculate the amount of alcohol in your beer, the equation is [(starting gravity - final gravity) / final gravity] * 133%

There are two factors you can influence here, obviously, the starting gravity and the finishing gravity. To get more alcohol you can start with a higher gravity and/or end with a lower gravity.

Starting with a higher gravity: Add more sugar at the start of the ferment. You could add another 500 grams of brew enhancer, or dextrose or table sugar and that would give you a higher starting gravity.

Ending with a lower gravity: This involves getting the yeast to ferment more of the sugar and convert it to alcohol. For this you need a higher proportion of fermentable sugars. Like Mark mentioned, brew enhancer 2 contains a mixture of highly fermentable sugars and not-so-fermentable sugars. If you use the same amount of pure dextrose (almost 100% fermentable) next time you will probably get a lower finishing gravity and get more alcohol, but the trade off is that there will be less sugar in the finished beer which will make it drier and thinner tasting! (For the record, 1.011 is a nice place for a pale ale to finish to provide good malt flavour and mouth feel). The other thing you could do is use more yeast, or a yeast that is capable of converting more sugar to alcohol.

Now that you know all that, the short answer is just add an additional 450 grams of dextrose, which will boost your starting gravity to 1.048, which will get you to 4.9% alcohol if everything else stays the same and you get the same finishing gravity.

edit: mark beat me to it!

 

[pnorkle]

edit: mark beat me to it!

Two finger typist Coodgee?

 

[Coodgee]

Two finger typist Coodgee?

no I can type like a mofo, it's the brain that is slow

 

[mongey]

like they said the enhancer has unfermentable sugars in it

just straight dextrose or LDM if you want it all to ferment out .I prefer LDM . the coopers branded one can be hard to find if you are buying from supermarkets. they usually have the dextrose . home brew shop is your best bet, though I do see the LDM at Dan murphys from time to time

to be honest I never use the enhancers . when I have the beer always seems sweet to me .and i get too much body. they foam up like crazy when I pour them

In my experience with the can yeast they always finish higher than an aftermarket yeast. but that could be cause their smaller packs rather than the yeast . for the $4.50 a US05 or similar costs I figure its worth the investment

 

[MHB]

I'm a chicken pecker, two fingers and a thumb and cant spell for shit.

mongy - DME and LME aren't fully fermentable, the solids in Extract (home made wort or concentrated into kits/LME/DME) are generally regarded as being 63% fermentable.
White Sugar - Sucrose adds 100% of its mass to extract and is 100% fermentable
Dextrose - Dextrose Monohydrate is about 91% solids (1kg adds same gravity as 910g sucrose), 100% fermentable
Dry malt Extract (DME) - contains a little moisture ~3-4% so it yields about 96-97% solids of which 63% +/- fermentable.
Liquid Malt Extract (LME) - 80% solids of which about 63% +/- fermentable.
Mark

 

[mongey]

I'm a chicken pecker, two fingers and a thumb and cant spell for shit.

mongy - DME and LME aren't fully fermentable, the solids in Extract (home made wort or concentrated into kits/LME/DME) are generally regarded as being 63% fermentable.
White Sugar - Sucrose adds 100% of its mass to extract and is 100% fermentable
Dextrose - Dextrose Monohydrate is about 91% solids (1kg adds same gravity as 910g sucrose), 100% fermentable
Dry malt Extract (DME) - contains a little moisture ~3-4% so it yields about 96-97% solids of which 63% +/- fermentable.
Liquid Malt Extract (LME) - 80% solids of which about 63% +/- fermentable.
Mark

I stand correct by someone with allot more knowledge than me . cheers Mark

 

[Foonz]

Wow you guys know your stuff! A lot of that went over my head but I really want to learn and understand. What I can take away from a single read over is that 1.011 for our pale ale is a good finish and will have a good mouth feel and taste? Next time we do this we need to add 450grams of dextrose which will end with round the same 1.011 but be higher alcohol level with same mouth feel and taste?

 

[DazGore]

Wow you guys know your stuff! A lot of that went over my head but I really want to learn and understand. What I can take away from a single read over is that 1.011 for our pale ale is a good finish and will have a good mouth feel and taste? Next time we do this we need to add 450grams of dextrose which will end with round the same 1.011 but be higher alcohol level with same mouth feel and taste?

Yep, anything at 1.010 is a good finishing point with enough residual sugars and malts left over to give a good mouth feel.
You will find that your starting gravity when adding the extra dextrose will be around the 1.047 range.
Definitely the brew enhancer 2 was the reason for the lower aalcohol.
I think brew enhancer 3 has more malt, and less unfermentables, so that would help too.

 

[Foonz]

Yep, anything at 1.010 is a good finishing point with enough residual sugars and malts left over to give a good mouth feel.
You will find that your starting gravity when adding the extra dextrose will be around the 1.047 range.
Definitely the brew enhancer 2 was the reason for the lower aalcohol.
I think brew enhancer 3 has more malt, and less unfermentables, so that would help too.

How do you work out home or extra things need to be added and how that will effect the gravity? Is it just doing it a lot or do I need to study some books?

 

[DazGore]

Look up and research/read about Gravity Points. Basically you take your gravity reading, say 1.040, this gets multiplied by 1000 to make 40 and then the litres target gets multiplied aswel to give you gravity points. You work out what gravity points you need, and then there are various online sources etc.. that tell you that "X" amount of dry malt gives "this" amount of gravity points., Or "X" amount honey, sugar, dextrose, maltodextrin etc...
I have a spreadsheet I made for BIAB recipe creation and on my second page I have a calculation as to how much sugar/ malt/ honey etc to add to reach my target if I am short. Pm me if you would like a copy. It's a Microsoft excel.

 

[Whistlingjack]

do I need to study some books?

http://www.howtobrew.com/

WJ

 

[Coodgee]

lots of calculators here that you might find useful

https://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/

 

[Foonz]

Thanks guys! I want to learn how to make great tastes that are a touch unique from malt extract cans and the right strength [emoji3].