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Which yeast to use to avoid banana in wheat beer

Discussion in 'Yeast' started by Jonboyno81, 29/11/18.

 

  1. Jonboyno81

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    Posted 29/11/18
    Ladies & Gents,

    Would changing the yeast in a German Wheat reduce the 'banana' flavour? Any recommendations?

    Cheers.
     
  2. BrutusB

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    Posted 29/11/18
    The only time I've gotten bannana with WB-06 was when I pushed it at 24c. When using at 18c it was more phenolic
     
  3. goatchop41

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    Posted 29/11/18
    1) Ferulic acid rest during your mash.
    2) Pitch proper yeast numbers (don't underpitch, like a lot of people seem to recommend for hefes).
    3) Ferment on the low end of the yeast's stated range of tolerance.

    All of these factors supposedly will limit banana ester formation (isoamyl acetate) and enhance clove-ish flavour.
     
  4. Droopy Brew

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    Posted 29/11/18
    Banana is a characteristic of a hefe. If you aren't keen on it I'd suggest a different style. American wheat perhaps.
    As mentioned WB06 wont give you banana unless pushed really high but I think it produces a pretty shit hefe personally. Danstar Munich is another.
    As goatchop said, promoting phenols over esters will reduce banana but a good hefe yeast such as 3068 will still give you some banana flavours.
    Perhaps try a Murrays Whale Ale to see if American wheat is for you.
     
  5. MHB

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    Posted 30/11/18
    Glucose (Dextrose) is a vital precursor in the production of Banana flavour. I regularly add some to hefe to get more banana, but in your case it might be worth avoiding it.
    Mark
     
  6. n87

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    Posted 30/11/18
    As another alternate, have a look at some wit yeasts.
    I love MJ's M21 Belgian Wit. I dont believe I have ever got banana from it.

    As an aside, M20 makes a cracker heffe fermented at 17C.
    Though I find I either need to use an old pack (around expiry date) or only use ~75% of a fresh pack for a standard batch of ~5% to get the best result. Just the right amount of reproduction.
     
    Last edited: 30/11/18
  7. n87

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    Posted 30/11/18
    Didnt know this... Will have to throw a handful of dextrose in the next batch to see how it goes.
     
  8. MHB

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    Posted 30/11/18
    Here is the English version of the original research by Dr. Bertram Sacher, have chatted with him and we agreed that if you weren't working under the Reinheitsgebot, you would just add Dex as required.
    Mark
     

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  9. altone

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    Posted 30/11/18
    Nice info Mark - added to my huge brewing folder :)
     
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  10. fungrel

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    Posted 30/11/18
    Let's swap brewing folders!
     
  11. MontPel

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    Posted 1/12/18
    How much glucose/dex do you add? From the article I would assume somewhere around 9g/L?
     
  12. MHB

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    Posted 1/12/18
    I generally use around 10% of extract, just a round number and anywhere from 5% up to 20% appears not to make a huge difference, but 10% appears to be close to the sweet spot.
    Too much and the beer tends to be a bit thin, not enough and you don't get the real Bananarama I'm looking for.

    A matter of personal taste but the best hefeweizen I have made was 50/50 Floor malted Wheat and FM Bo-Pilsner both from Weyermann, 10% Dex and WY 3068.
    I'll have to give the 70% Wheat, mentioned in the article a go, BIAB makes very high Wheat fractions just as easy as any other. Not always the case in 3V or modern recirculating systems, unless you mill very carefully.
    Mark
     
  13. n87

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    Posted 1/12/18
    My heffe recipe is 70/30 wheat/pils with about 5% crystal and m20@17°C
    Has got me a couple of awards, but most important, it also tastes wonderful.

    I run a 1v malt pipe herms and don't have problems, mostly I will throw in some rice hulls for a bit of security tho.
     

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