Which Way Shall I Go From Here

[fergi]

hi guys
well i have a morgans royal oak ale brewing at the moment.added 750 dextrose.250 corn syrup,and 500 dme. it has been in primary for 6 days at 18 deg.i have just racked it to secondry at sg 1018 which seems a touch high,original was 1046.it was only bubbling about once every 5 mins so i have put into secondry.i dont think this will matter for secondry but it has started to bubble about once every minute in secondry.as it is an ale do i still keep it at 18 deg or so and what fg do you think it will come down to,i will monitor it with hydro and when it has stabilised for 2 or 3 days i will bottle,also as it is supposed to be in the style of an irish/english ale according to my hb guy when i carbonate it i usually put in a full teaspoon measure for my normal beers ,would i put a lot less in as the style i am trying to make is probably not as gassy as our australian type beers.would it also benifit from cc in a fridge or being an ale not really improve it much
cheers
fergi

 

[morry]

I recently made an irish ale. Since my fridge is lagering my pils, I didnt bother CCing it. However, the site I got the recipe from, recommended CCing it for two weeks. I havent CCd an ale before.

 

[PostModern]

The corn syrup won't ferment so you're probably pretty close to FG.

There is no harm leaving it in secondary for a while longer. Let it sit there and bulk condition for a while before bottling, even if the gravity doesn't drop any more.

Cold conditioning will help the clarity of the beer, but personally I like to secondary for 2 weeks or so at primary fermentation temp, just to let the yeast clean up after itself. CCing will shock the yeast into flocculating, which is good for clarity, but can have the effect of making carbonation/bottle conditioning take longer.

I don't know why so many people use Corn Syrup. Sure a dose of dextrose and some CS is cheaper than brewing with all malt, but I don't know of any flavour benefit. Essentially what you're doing is adding something that ferments completely (dextrose) with something that doesn't ferment (Corn Syrup) in order to end up with the same body you'd get just adding malt. You might save a couple of bucks, but in a 20 litre batch, it'd work out to just a couple of cents per bottle...

 

[pint of lager]

Fergi, sounds like a good combo of ingredients for a kit beer. But do agree with PM about the corn syrup.

The sg sounds a bit high, I would expect it to finish around 1.012. Make sure, you take the reading as soon as the hydrometer goes into the test jar, otherwise bubbles form on the outside, and make the hydrometer float higher.

Don't be mislead by the number of bubbles through the airlock, trust your hydrometer. Bubbling through the airlock can be due to atmospheric changes, or by dissolved carbon dioxide coming out of solution.

 

[fergi]

thanks for the response there guys.i have been told b4 about the corn syrup and i would like to try somthing without it in my brew but it seems to be in all the adda packs that they sell .what would be a good add on then if i did another ale ,i thought that the corn syrup was to give it a good holding head,yes i will leave it in secondry for at least another week and use the hydro for bottling time,what about carbonation does it need as much as a normal beer or should i give it a bit less
cheers


fergi

 

[GMK]

i agree with all the info put so far....

I have made taht kit heaps of times...

Secondary for 2 weeks at 18 degrees - dry hop with 25gms of goldings.
Place secondary into the fridge for th elast 3 days.

Then bulk prime or keg.

Some suggestions for the next batch:
use:
- 1084 Irish Ale Yeast
- 1kg of Light LME.
or, Steep 150gms of Xtal in 5ltrs of water for 60 mins and then drain out the grain and add the 1kg of LME to the pot and boil for 20mins with 15gms of Northern Brewer. (can do a partial with 500gms of ale malt mixed with the crystal at 65 for a hour as well - drop LME down to 750gms if u do the partial.)

Do secondary and dry hop as listed above.

Hope this helps Fergi.

 

[PostModern]

what would be a good add on then if i did another ale

About 1.5Kg of plain old dry malt extract.

 

[fergi]

thanks guys appreciate the advice
fergi

 

[pint of lager]

Fergi, when I was making k+k brews, I tried to move to all DME as the additive, but the beers were all too sweet and out of balance due to the extra unfermentables. This was with using different yeasts, different kits and also trying mini mashing. Was never happy with any combination of corn syrup, DME and dextrose.

Try some crystal in your next brew.

 

[PostModern]

As usual pint of lager gives sound advice. All-extract brews have much less character and interest than AG or part-mashes. Remembering my own progress up the brewing ladder (thus far), the most satisfaction I got from any one brew was my first part-mash. I can't recall the exact recipe but it was a mix of specialty grains, some hop pellets and extract with a liquid yeast. Not to any established style, as such (maybe a close relative of Amber Ale) but made with selected ingredients instead of a kit plus a bag. It doesn't need any special equipment, just some grains in a coffee plunger plus fresh extract and hops boiled in a pasta pot and topped up with water.

Eg: American Pale Ale

3Kg Light DME
250g crystal
20g cascade 60 mins
15g cascade 20 mins
15g cascade 5 mins

White Labs California Ale yeast (WLP001)

Boil a 2/3 full pasta pot of water with half the DME, bring to boil, add first hops, boil for 40 mins, add second hops, boil 15 mins, add third hops and remaining extract. Boil for 5 mins then chill in sink full of ice packs and water for 30 mins, add to fermenter, top to 23 litres pitch yeast when temp less than 22C. Rack to secondary after 10 days, add 15g more hops in secondary. Bottle 1-2 weeks later.

 

[NRB]

Steep 150gms of Xtal in 5ltrs of water for 60 mins and then drain out the grain and add the 1kg of LME to the pot and boil for 20mins with 15gms of Northern Brewer. (can do a partial with 500gms of ale malt mixed with the crystal at 65 for a hour as well - drop LME down to 750gms if u do the partial.)

When you say steep, what temperature water are you talking about? In my next kit brew I'd like to experiment with some specialty grains for added flavour/fermentables.

I was given a Cooper's Pale Ale kit and a 1kg bag of Brewblend #20 (LME/corn syrup/dextrose) which I'd like to use to get rid of it. I was thinking of using a yeast culture from a bottle of Cooper's Sparkling Ale throwing the packet yeast into the brewpot whilst boiling the ingredients for 15 minutes. I was also considering some additional hops...

I've got a 15L stockpot, so can do a "reasonable" volume.

Nick

 

[dicko]

Hi Fergi,
Notwithstanding all the above advice which you really should note, it is my concern that your brew has only come down to 1018 sg and for this reason alone I would be looking at your yeast preparation, assuming you are using the kit yeast and the most important is aeration of the wort prior to pitching.
Re-hydration of the dried yeast is paramount and the quantity of yeast is important as well.
If you get all this right and your fermentation temps are correct and even for the type of yeast you have pitched, then within six days you primary fermentation should be just about finished.
Racking after six days should be only to help clear the beer and get it off the dead yeast.
Racking in your case will "kick" the yeast into gear again and should get your brew down around 1012 in a few days
I hope this helps
Cheers

 

[PostModern]

dicko, I agree with what you've posted but I reckon the kit and brew baggy carry a lot of unknowns. What is the ~real~ quantity of Corn Syrup and just exactly what is in the can???

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Even better might be to swirl or shake the fermenter to get the yeast back up into the beer. It will likely drop 4 points within a few hours of doing this.

JM

 

[PostModern]

I've never seen a dry yeast flocculate early in Summer, but yes, JM, something else to try.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

JM

I think 4 points is an unreasonable amount in 4 hours after the ferment has obviously stopped.

Fergi
Stir the yeast up as JM suggests, but please be patient. Once a yeast has stopped working it is usually has for a very good reason (temperature, health, alcohol level and lots of others), so it does take a lot to start again.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[dicko]

Hi PoMo,
Yes mate you are correct, no one REALLY knows the secrets hidden in those bags but in my days of kits and bits i did weigh all that stuff including dried corn syrup for my brews and I found that once I went past the kilo of dextrose the kit yeast just would not hack it in most situations.
One problem was that there was not enough yeast in that rediculous little packet to ferment a beer above 1040 and the other problem is that most brewers follow the less than adequate instructions and just sprinkle the yeast on top with no regard to the amount of oxygen in the wort for a healthy start and good fermentation let alone the necessity for the correct RE HYDRATION of the yeast.
My personal feeling is that if brewers like Fergi get their head around the why's and wherefor's of fermentation then as they graduate to grains and liquid yeasts good practices will automatically follow.
I watch some mates of mine who are k & K + bits brewers and most still think they can get away with less than adequate yeast practices. Some of their decisions are based on economics ( eg, extra yeast costs more ) and some are just ignorant of the facts of fermentation mainly due to the INCORRECT instructions on the tin of hopped extract.
I know it took me a while to really believe that the instructions on the tin were incorrect but after realising that there was a better way, I never looked back.
Cheers and good brewing to all.

 

[GSRman]

My call on this would be leave it the f*ck alone for a while, its normal that when you rack it to the secondary the yeast will get a bit excited again, 18deg is pretty cool for a kit yeast, so it might take a bit longer, and you have over 2kg of malt in there too, a kit yeast is going to take a fair while to chew through that too..

 

[fergi]

well guys a follow on from my previous post,my ale has been in secondry for 4 days now and i have just done another hydro read,it is still reading 1018 .i have never had one this high before,as i said previous it had 750 dextrose,250 corn syrup and 500 dme.should i toss in another dried yeast ,shake the secondry up,let the temp get above 18 deg,what will happen to this brew if i still bottle it at 1018 ,will it just mean that the alcahol level will be down or will it be a crap brew.tastes ok out of the hydro tester jar,obviously warm and flat though.starting gravity was 1046

cheers
fergi

 

[Jovial_Monk]

1018 is too high, esp since you added a kilo of dextrose

Rehydrate another dry yeast (Nottingham would be the go) and pitch

Jovial Monk