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Where Does A Red Ipa "fit" In Bjcp Guidelines?

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Fat Bastard

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I've got a couple of Red IPA's loosely based on a Hop Head Red clone recipe ready to go, could I get away with entering them in the American IPA category in the ESB comp?

According to BJCP guidelines they're too dark to be an American IPA but I'm not expecting anything other than feedback on them. I'm very new to comps and the etiqutte around them.

Cheers,

FB.
 

brettprevans

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Cats set out ibu, colour etc. just look at the cat guidelines

Without knowing ur specs, I'll hazard a guess saying ur ipa ibu and colour are too dark for ipa and us amber. Most 'specialty' beers go into cat 18, specialty cat. But most comp don't have that cat.

If u enter a beer that's not to style to style it will get hammered in score regardless of how good it has been made. Now there are some styles that are slightly overlapping/similar characteristics but at the end of the day ur beer has to fit into those cat styles if u want to enter it and hope to do well.

u should be able to pick what style ur beer is going to fit for a comp if you've got little brewing exp.
 

Barry

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If the colour is heading towards brown then it could be an American Brown Ale at the top end of specs. It depends on the colour, IBU, % and OG of your beer.
 

Fat Bastard

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Thanks for the helpful replies.

Looks like I won't be trying to enter the Red IPA as a Brown or IPA, it's too dark for the IPA cat, and way too hoppy for a brown. The latest version calculates @ 125 IBU, but to my pallate anyway seems much closer to 85.

I was going to enter an American Brown I have, but I'm not happy with that one, so that leaves me with a solitary Au Pale Ale to enter, and I'm not going to drive to across Sydney for one entry!

Hopefully the NSW comp will have a cat for Red IPA.

Cheers,
FB
 

Florian

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If colour is really the only thing that sets it apart from an AIPA than I would enter it as an AIPA.

On a BJCP scoresheet appearance only makes 3 out of 50 possible points, so if everything else is to style you could still end up with a winner.

I never had a Hop Head Red but based on what you said that's how I would do it.
 

katzke

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If colour is really the only thing that sets it apart from an AIPA than I would enter it as an AIPA.

On a BJCP scoresheet appearance only makes 3 out of 50 possible points, so if everything else is to style you could still end up with a winner.
That is what I thought. When I asked, I was told different by the person running the comp (different comp).

He said it would get killed if it were not to style. Dont understand why, just what I was told how it works.

Enter it in the other category if they have it. Or just enjoy it and not take it to the comp.
 

datamike

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I've got a couple of Red IPA's loosely based on a Hop Head Red clone recipe ready to go, could I get away with entering them in the American IPA category in the ESB comp?

According to BJCP guidelines they're too dark to be an American IPA but I'm not expecting anything other than feedback on them. I'm very new to comps and the etiqutte around them.

Cheers,

FB.
First, most judges are idiots.

Second, I am a BJCP National judge here in the US. ;-)

Let's assume that your beer is absolutely perfect, except that it is too dark/red for the style of IPA. With good judging you would have a 49-point beer. One point deduction for color. Appearance is 3 points, and that accounts for color, clarity and head. A good judge won't nick more than one point off just for color.

That's the way it *should* work. How it actually works depends on the judges you get. A beer color that's way out of style may cause the judges to look for or perceive flavors that aren't really there.

Good luck!
Michael
 

np1962

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I would of thought you would lose a lot more than 1 point.
What about the overall impression score? Surely that is where the beer would be severely marked down for being out of style.
You should still receive the feedback you are after regardless with a good judge commenting on all aspects of the beer so if you are not in it to win it then go for it.
Nige
 

Parks

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The other thing to ask is how the colour got there. If it's a grain which doesn't belong in an AIPA which affects the flavour you could impact your score more than the 1 point *purely* for colour.

It really all depends on what you want out of entering it. Those that have the single goal of winning these comps know that every point counts and specifically target their recipes to fit the guidelines. If you're only seriously concerned that you're on the right track and want feedback then definitely do it.
 

Weizguy

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First, most judges are idiots.

Second, I am a BJCP National judge here in the US. ;-)

Let's assume that your beer is absolutely perfect, except that it is too dark/red for the style of IPA. With good judging you would have a 49-point beer. One point deduction for color. Appearance is 3 points, and that accounts for color, clarity and head. A good judge won't nick more than one point off just for color.

That's the way it *should* work. How it actually works depends on the judges you get. A beer color that's way out of style may cause the judges to look for or perceive flavors that aren't really there.

Good luck!
Michael
G'day Michael,

Most of our judges are quite good, and I know Barry is judging this comp, and he has loads of experience as a beer judge and master home brewer.

As far as I'm concerned, I would enter the beer in American Amber and AIPA, and get the feedback for both styles, if you have the $$.

BTW, I am a BJCP judge too, but a low man on the totem pole, but with quite a bit of experience and always learning.

Les out
 

brettprevans

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bjcp scoreing
Outstanding (45 - 50): World-class example of style.
Excellent (38 - 44): Exemplifies style well, requires minor fine-tuning.
Very Good (30 - 37): Generally within style parameters, some minor flaws.
Good (21 - 29): Misses the mark on style and/or minor flaws.
Fair (14 - 20): Off flavors/aromas or major style deficiencies. Unpleasant.
Problematic (00 - 13): Major off flavors and aromas dominate. Hard to drink.

as I posted earlier, if colour is the only style deviation you'll go ok. But you've put yourself behind the 8 ball slightly. and of course depending on what grain you've used to get your colour it may throw some other 'not to style' flavours in which case if detected you'll loose marks on flavour and aroma as well as overall impression.

now this isnt to say dont enter the beer. by all means enter it. plenty of people enter a beer in more than 1 category even if it doesnt exactly match style. Every point counts in a tightly contested category (esp one like IPA).

Good luck.
 

Mike L'Itorus

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If it falls outside BJCP guidelines, then you shouldn't brew it in the first place. It won't be beer, it will be swill, because only beer brewed to stict adherence to BJCP is any good. This is why Bud light is such a good beer, because it fits so well into the BJCP standard for Lite American Lager.
 

brettprevans

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[quote name='Mike L'Itorus' post='932951' date='Jul 10 2012, 01:15 PM']If it falls outside BJCP guidelines, then you shouldn't brew it in the first place. It won't be beer, it will be swill, because only beer brewed to stict adherence to BJCP is any good. This is why Bud light is such a good beer, because it fits so well into the BJCP standard for Lite American Lager.[/quote]
dont be an idiot. he asked about a comp which is bound by bjcp guidelines. so thats the info he's receiving. Hell I dont brew within bjcp guidelines unless its for a comp.
 

Lord Raja Goomba I

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The other thing to ask is how the colour got there. If it's a grain which doesn't belong in an AIPA which affects the flavour you could impact your score more than the 1 point *purely* for colour.

It really all depends on what you want out of entering it. Those that have the single goal of winning these comps know that every point counts and specifically target their recipes to fit the guidelines. If you're only seriously concerned that you're on the right track and want feedback then definitely do it.

Hell I dont brew within bjcp guidelines unless its for a comp.
+1 - I'm having to squeeze a beer into a guideline, or tweak an existing recipe and *hope* that it's still okay.

I think what has to be realised is that the guidelines are there to attempt to give a level playing field where apples are compared with apples. But, most of us brew to what works/tastes good/fixes our desire to tinker with styles.

I couldn't enter a faux-lager made with Notto - it'd get slaughtered either as a Lager, Bitter or Pale Ale. Doesn't mean it isn't a great quaffer, though.

When I create a new recipe, I'll often reference BJCP - to see if an existing combo of malts, malts & hops, or hops will give a decent foundation, and then create from there. But the end result never ends up near a guideline.
 

Parks

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dont be an idiot. he asked about a comp which is bound by bjcp guidelines. so thats the info he's receiving. Hell I dont brew within bjcp guidelines unless its for a comp.
I don't think his :p or ;) emoticons are working. Seriously must have been a sarcastic post.

While the BJCP guidelines are pretty hopeless in some ways they're about as good as you could expect from a field which is both qualitative and subjective. If you want a brewing competition there needs to be more than just "this is a good beer". Kinda like how great race car drivers have to drive around a set track - they can't just go and race any track that is the same distance and expect to win...
 

Mike L'Itorus

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I refuse to dignify my sarcasm with emoticons. If emoticons are required for people to understand sarcasm, than I weep for humanity.

What is more idiotic? Sarcastically pointing out the inadequacy of judging guidelines, or brewing an entire batch of dumbed-down beer, in order to meet said guidelines, just for a shiny bauble?

mmmm, food for thought.
 

Fat Bastard

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Who is brewing for shiny baubles? All I wanted to know was if entering slightly out of style was the done thing or not so I could get some feedback on my beer. I think it's very good, but I'd like someone with a better and more experienced pallate than mine to have a crack at it and hopefully agree with me or at least point out what's wrong with it.

In any case, I did not enter any beers in the ESB comp, because the ones I have that are on style I'm not happy with. I will wait for the state comp before losing my competition virginity.

Cheers,

FB
 

piraterum

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I have a dream, that my four little brews will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

When will there be a beer comp based purely on the merits of a beer rather than fitting a particular strict style?
Let the best beer win, otherwise Toohey New will keep winning the best lager category.
 

Parks

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I have a dream, that my four little brews will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

When will there be a beer comp based purely on the merits of a beer rather than fitting a particular strict style?
Let the best beer win, otherwise Toohey New will keep winning the best lager category.
I believe that's what happens when you put your beer into a show.

How do you judge the merits of a beer? Your idea of a great beer and mine are most likely totally different.

Tooheys new and the like are likely to win the Aussie Lager swill category because that's what they are...
 

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