Whats Your Bitterness?

[Byran]

Hey everyone,
Id like to pose the question....what IBU's do you prefer and what Hops do you prefer to use to get these IBU's?
I have found that if you stray too far on the bitter side for a recipe, then it can be good, or bad.
But too little bitterness can be pretty **** as well.
Different hop styles seem to give varying levels of smoothness to the Bittering additions I have noticed.
Just want to pick everyones brain as to their favorites.

 

[black_labb]

Depends on the grainbill, yeast and what I am aiming for. anywhere between 12 and 100 calculated ibu works well for me if the malt bill and yeast suit.

 

[Byran]

Depends on the grainbill, yeast and what I am aiming for. anywhere between 12 and 100 calculated ibu works well for me if the malt bill and yeast suit.

So do you think that yeast esters play a big part in the bitterness through the finished beer?
I hadnt considered this much before just thought bitterness was more a universal thing depending on the Alpha acid content. But had noticed a difference depending on the hop used

 

[colonel]

Hey everyone,
Id like to pose the question....what IBU's do you prefer and what Hops do you prefer to use to get these IBU's?
I have found that if you stray too far on the bitter side for a recipe, then it can be good, or bad.
But too little bitterness can be pretty **** as well.
Different hop styles seem to give varying levels of smoothness to the Bittering additions I have noticed.
Just want to pick everyones brain as to their favorites.

G'day Byran.
I guess it depends on taste, and trial and error.
I'm a newby to AG, only done 10, but the last brew I made was a mistake (I was a bit Schindlers at the time) and according to Brewmate, it's 92 IBU.
This seems like a huge number to me, and I can't vouch for the veracity of the numbers.
But, I'm loving it, couldn't drink it all night, but a couple of pints are great.
But I certainly wouldn't want it any more bitter, I just timed it, and the bitter taste lasts about 5 minutes.
I tried the new James Squire Hop Thief yesterday, and I'd say mine's much more bitter on the finish, but the aroma is worth proposing to. haha

 

[glenwal]

just thought bitterness was more a universal thing depending on the Alpha acid content.

The IBU calculation might be, but the overall balance of the beer is what is important. That balances comes from everything else that's in the beer, so you can't really just look at one component (like IBUs) in isolation.

 

[Byran]

The IBU calculation might be, but the overall balance of the beer is what is important. That balances comes from everything else that's in the beer, so you can't really just look at one component (like IBUs) in isolation.

So I guess its more about using the bitterness values to try develop a beer that helps blend all of the elements together to create a flavour that is "good"
I have also experimented a little with Calcium sulfate to smooth bitterness in things like IPAs. I have just made one that is about 60IBU and the bitterness lingers for quite a while. Although I have done quite a few AG Im still in the experimental stage of my recipe understanding so I like to ask questions, it helps me tweak my recipes the way I want without having to do a ship load of trial and error.

Thanks for the input

 

[donburke]

So I guess its more about using the bitterness values to try develop a beer that helps blend all of the elements together to create a flavour that is "good"
I have also experimented a little with Calcium sulfate to smooth bitterness in things like IPAs. I have just made one that is about 60IBU and the bitterness lingers for quite a while. Although I have done quite a few AG Im still in the experimental stage of my recipe understanding so I like to ask questions, it helps me tweak my recipes the way I want without having to do a ship load of trial and error.

Thanks for the input

the cohumulone content as a % of the aa will affect how you perceive the bitterness, with a lower cohumulone % perceived as smoother

saphir as an example has a very smooth bitterness to my taste

attenuation of your yeast can affect perceived bitterness, and if your yeast shred through all the residual sugars, your beer will seem more bitter than one fermented with a less attenuative yeast

but a general rule of thumb for me is to bitter to 30-35 ibu for a 1.045 - 1.050 beer

and for an ipa use a 1:1 ratio for bug

i have a 90 ibu 9% beer hopped to the max you can try friday, sulfate levels were 350ppm and the bitterness is quite deceptive, bet you pour a second one, you can smell the hops next door when you pour a glass

 

[Renzo]

The BU/SG ratio is what I look to mostly. This link here is quite good. Scroll down and someone posted the bu/gu ratios for different styles. http://www.brewingkb.com/homebrewing/IBU-S...Ratio-2569.html

 

[achy02]

Slightly off topic but I was reading an American novel where one of the characters 'salted his beer'. I did some research and the explanation was about salt reducing the bitterness of the beer. I'm not sure if this has any scientific basis and I only have lightly bittered beer so no tests for me.Aches

 

[Dave70]

On balance, I can see my way past an overly bitter, or simply not so nice hop combo after a pint or two.
If it's to sweet on the other hand, even a little, it just seems to get worse. Like when clubs use to have the 'Jim Beam' girls dispensing hastily pored promotional sevens of flat coke syrup and Bourbon.
At least they were cheap.

I quick look through my dog eared scrapbook reveals Hallertauer, Northern Brewer and Amarillo overrepresented, with the most popular range being between 22 and 45 IBU's. Pretty standard stuff really.

When my hops mature however, I plan on making a beer so bitter, ugly and inefficient, the thread arguing about the pros and cons and limit of bitterness perceivable to the human palate will ramble for a thousand pages...

 

[Nick JD]

This is like saying how do you like your meat cooked - and expecting the answer to be "rare" for all meats, or "well done".

I prefer my steaks medium; really great cuts even bloodier; chuck in a stew nuked till it falls apart. Chicken - just past translucent (people always freakin overcook it); pork the same; fish the same; squid is actually really good if it's cooked (philippines style) way past rubber, where it becomes good again. Likewise bacon.

IBUs are suit the style, not the drinker.

 

[rude]

This is like saying how do you like your meat cooked - and expecting the answer to be "rare" for all meats, or "well done".

I prefer my steaks medium; really great cuts even bloodier; chuck in a stew nuked till it falls apart. Chicken - just past translucent (people always freakin overcook it); pork the same; fish the same; squid is actually really good if it's cooked (philippines style) way past rubber, where it becomes good again. Likewise bacon.

IBUs are suit the style, not the drinker.

Big tip dont overcook the squid,flour egg & breadcrumbs is a good way to cook it till they are golden brown just on the sizzle.

 

[Byran]

This is like saying how do you like your meat cooked - and expecting the answer to be "rare" for all meats, or "well done".

I prefer my steaks medium; really great cuts even bloodier; chuck in a stew nuked till it falls apart. Chicken - just past translucent (people always freakin overcook it); pork the same; fish the same; squid is actually really good if it's cooked (philippines style) way past rubber, where it becomes good again. Likewise bacon.

IBUs are suit the style, not the drinker.

Was Just askin........ How do you like your bitterness then? lol

 

[Byran]

Was Just askin........ How do you like your bitterness then? lol

It was more a question of preference for a bittering hop of sorts. As Don burke says, he prefers saphir because he believes it gives a more balance smoother bitterness. In his opinion ......
I am starting to see the differences and do notice harshness in the high Alpha hops ect.
Again personal preference does play a large part but that is why I asked what you all prefer.
And of course this is only relevant with first wort additions or full boil additions.

 

[Byran]

G'day Byran.
I guess it depends on taste, and trial and error.
I'm a newby to AG, only done 10, but the last brew I made was a mistake (I was a bit Schindlers at the time) and according to Brewmate, it's 92 IBU.
This seems like a huge number to me, and I can't vouch for the veracity of the numbers.
But, I'm loving it, couldn't drink it all night, but a couple of pints are great.
But I certainly wouldn't want it any more bitter, I just timed it, and the bitter taste lasts about 5 minutes.
I tried the new James Squire Hop Thief yesterday, and I'd say mine's much more bitter on the finish, but the aroma is worth proposing to. haha

Where did you acquire your hop thief from colonel? Id love to try some of that but haven't seen it anywhere yet?

 

[Nick JD]

Was Just askin........ How do you like your bitterness then? lol

Slightly to the high end of the style's variance.

Let's take as example the German Pils. I like them around 35ish IBUs (IBUs: 25 – 45).

American IPA (40 – 70): I like the IBUs to match the last two numbers on the OG - as has been mentioned before in this thread. 1.0 BUGU. If it's 40 IBUs, is isn't much of an IPA IMO.

Hefe (8 – 15): I prefer 15 ... perhaps even slightly not-to-style more like 20 - especially if the esters are maxed out and it's "sweet banana".

Triple (20 – 40): late thirties, or it's too sweet for me. Dubels too.

APA (30 – 45): to me, 30 IBUs isn't an APA.

Etc.

 

[Byran]

Slightly to the high end of the style's variance.

Let's take as example the German Pils. I like them around 35ish IBUs (IBUs: 25 45).

American IPA (40 70): I like the IBUs to match the last two numbers on the OG - as has been mentioned before in this thread. 1.0 BUGU. If it's 40 IBUs, is isn't much of an IPA IMO.

Hefe (8 15): I prefer 15 ... perhaps even slightly not-to-style more like 20 - especially if the esters are maxed out and it's "sweet banana".

Triple (20 40): late thirties, or it's too sweet for me. Dubels too.

APA (30 45): to me, 30 IBUs isn't an APA.

Etc.

Oh nice I do enjoy a more bitter taste also but I have found that some beers have harshness that doesn't really reflect on the bitterness intended. I think matching the IBU and OG ratio will be my next port of call as you boys have made lots more than I and your beer knowledge will hopefully prevent me from having to do as much experimenting , and more making good ****.

 

[QldKev]

Also look at which hop you are bittering with. Super Alpha is a great clean overall bittering hop, Magnum is awesome for an APA but sometimes I use POR for an Aussie twist, Challenger is my first choice for an English Ale but EKG and Fuggles are both great too.

QldKev

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

As most have alluded to - waaaay too open ended a question.

It comes down to balance, variety of beer, yeast, other ingredients, hop type, yada yada yada.

Another thing not mentioned - the IBU obtained from the hops is different depending on when it is added.

40 IBU from a 10 minute addition is not the same as 40 IBU from 60 minute addition, nor the same as a 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5 flameout (or combo of any of the above).

If I'm going APA, I'll have a 30/10 split about 50% of IBU coming from each, whereas AIPA, I'll push the 30 minutes out to 60 for a more bitey bitterness, which cuts the fruitsalad a bit, but still retains some of the flavour/aroma additions.

Goomba

 

[Malted]

Big tip dont overcook the squid,flour egg & breadcrumbs is a good way to cook it till they are golden brown just on the sizzle.

Tender, Tough, Tender

Quick cook (flash fry, deep fry etc) - tender
Longer cook (fried too long etc) - tough
Long and slow (braised etc) - tender

 

[donburke]

Tender, Tough, Tender

Quick cook (flash fry, deep fry etc) - tender
Longer cook (fried too long etc) - tough
Long and slow (braised etc) - tender

for a unique mediterranean flavour, fresh (not frozen) calamari and octopus can be simmered in red wine for half an hour then let cool and remove from the wine

then dip in a marinade of olive oil, oregano and lemon juice and bbq on coals for a few minutes, then redip in the marinade and serve with ouzo or your favourite beer

twice cooked is not just for the masterchef followers, its the wog way of doing things too

 

[Malted]

for a unique mediterranean flavour, fresh (not frozen) calamari and octopus can be simmered in red wine for half an hour then let cool and remove from the wine

then dip in a marinade of olive oil, oregano and lemon juice and bbq on coals for a few minutes, then redip in the marinade and serve with ouzo or your favourite beer

twice cooked is not just for the masterchef followers, its the wog way of doing things too

:icon_drool2: mmmmmmm, I am soooo gunna have to try this. Those western oriental gentlemen really know their stuff!

 

[thylacine]

Hey everyone,
Id like to pose the question....what IBU's do you prefer and what Hops do you prefer to use to get these IBU's?
I have found that if you stray too far on the bitter side for a recipe, then it can be good, or bad.
But too little bitterness can be pretty **** as well.
Different hop styles seem to give varying levels of smoothness to the Bittering additions I have noticed.
Just want to pick everyones brain as to their favorites.

I like 'sites', as per below, to receive information/opinion re hops I may wish to try.

http://homebrewandbeer.com/hops.html
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/101/hops.php
http://byo.com/resources/hops

 

[Phoney]

Another calamri tip:

Marinate them in kiwifruit juice for at least 20 minuntes before cooking them. If you cant find / dont have kiwifruit juice, you can also just get a couple of ripe kiwifruits and mash them up with a fork and then mix it in a bowl with the calanari rings.

 

[HoppingMad]

I prefer 18-25 IBU in the majority of my pale ales.

But it's a personal taste thing. One of the best brewers in my club who I enjoy drinking his ale type beers consistently makes his in the 28IBU bracket and that's about where I'd sit too.

I've made great Belgium beers around 9-11IBU. Being more bitter doesn't always equal better. But with some styles you find that yeast and malt takes over and does its thing on the flavour (Wheat/Weizen beers are a good example on that).

That said plenty of folks in my club consistently brew 60-70IBU hop monsters and have fun doing that - but I'm more frugal when it comes to popping hops in the boil. (I think those guys are slightly mad - or simply grow more hops than they know what to do with maybe).

Occasionally I'll head high where the recipe or style needs it like on an IPA but for something sessionable you can hand to a non-brewer that doesn't taste too green or need dulling down later with some serious cellar-time that's my zone.

Disclaimer here: I chill with a cube - so I probably get more IBU/isometrisation as a result of this technique anyhow (another long technical conversation).

Hopper.

 

[donburke]

Another calamri tip:

Marinate them in kiwifruit juice for at least 20 minuntes before cooking them. If you cant find / dont have kiwifruit juice, you can also just get a couple of ripe kiwifruits and mash them up with a fork and then mix it in a bowl with the calanari rings.

is there something in the kiwifruit that reacts to soften texture ? or is it strictly a flavour thing ?

 

[donburke]

is there something in the kiwifruit that reacts to soften texture ? or is it strictly a flavour thing ?

ok, just read this from wikipedia

 

[Phoney]

is there something in the kiwifruit that reacts to soften texture ? or is it strictly a flavour thing ?

hmm.. *checks google*

"Have you ever cooked calamari only to find it's chewy or cooked a steak that ends up with the texture of an old boot? Geoff Jansz has a great tip from mother nature that will turn the less tender cuts into melt in your mouth delights. Use kiwi fruit or paw paw which both contain an enzyme which tenderises meat, seafood, poultry or any protein. Peel and slice the kiwi fruit or paw paw and place the fruit and peel over the meat or calamari, cover with cling wrap on a plate and put it in the fridge. Leave it for two to six hours depending on how tender you want the meat and remember to remove the fruit before cooking it.

Warning: This method really does work. If left for too long (24 hours) the kiwi fruit would turn the calamari to mush."

Well there you go

 

[black_labb]

kiwifruit protein rest for a tropical pils?

 

[geneabovill]

Back to the OP... I think that a lot of the answers assume that OP is brewing to style. I like a lot of up front hop flavour, like Potter's Pale Ale. The fruity flavours compliment the malty sweetness and are balanced by the bitterness. If you brew to style, then follow the BJCP Style Guide for bitterness profiles. If you brew to your taste buds, then follow what you find to be delicious.