What's The Most Efficient Liquor To Grist Ratio If Space In The Ma

[ausdb]

Hey guys,

Just planning some future double batches here, and trying to determine how to most effectively use my 55L esky mashtun (beerbelly false bottom).

The recipe I'm playing with has an 11.5kg grain-bill. So far I'm looking at the following:

- 20.7L of mash-in water (1.8L/kg)
- Approximately 22L of mash-out water (or as needed) to bring it to 78C (aprox 3.7L/kg)
- This should fill the esky to right around the 50L mark. I don't think I'd push it much further
- batch sparge to equal the correct pre-boil volume

Is a 1.8L/kg liquor to grist ratio acceptable?

A big thanks in advance for any further input and knowledge. I tried the forum search (and google) without much luck.

How hot do you heat your mashout water? I pretty regularly do double batches with about that much grain in a 50L esky. I normally mash about 2-2.5L/kg but heat my volum of mashout water to boiling temp in a spare pot and then have my sparge water heated in my urn which can double as my boiler or my main kettle. Dumping a pot full of boiling water in to mash out gets the temp up pretty quickly versus just trickling in 78C water. I will try and look up an old brewlog to see what quantities of water I was using.

 

[Wrenny]

I don't have a HLT, so what I do is this.

Mash in about 2.5-3 l/kg which just about fills up the esky.
If I'm in the mood, I'll do a lazy decoction (ie just scoop and boil, not worry about resting the decoction at mash temp).
About half an hour before the end of the mash, put all my sparge water into the kettle and heat up to about 85 deg.
Run the sparge water into a fermenter or cube.
Run the wort into the kettle, turning the kettle on once the wort is above the element.
Batch sparge with the water in the fermenter / cube.


This saves me a bit of time, effort and cleaning compared to sparging into the fermenter and then transfering that into the kettle after the first sparge.

Cheers,
Wrenny

 

[drsmurto]

Hey guys,

Just planning some future double batches here, and trying to determine how to most effectively use my 55L esky mashtun (beerbelly false bottom).

The recipe I'm playing with has an 11.5kg grain-bill. So far I'm looking at the following:

- 20.7L of mash-in water (1.8L/kg)
- Approximately 22L of mash-out water (or as needed) to bring it to 78C (aprox 3.7L/kg)
- This should fill the esky to right around the 50L mark. I don't think I'd push it much further
- batch sparge to equal the correct pre-boil volume

Is a 1.8L/kg liquor to grist ratio acceptable?

A big thanks in advance for any further input and knowledge. I tried the forum search (and google) without much luck.

I have a 55L willow esky and the beerbelly false bottom.

Only done one 'double' batch so far - a partigyle (IIPA/APA). From memory that was around the 11-12kg of grain mark. It was full by the end of mash out but theres enough room to do it.

I then filled it back up again and drained for the 2nd batch.

The thicker you mash in, the smaller the volume of boiling water you need to add to get temps up to mash out. I used 2.2L/kg i reckon.

 

[trevc]

I think If I were doing double keg-sized batches, things would be much easier at 38-40L final volume. Because I'm aiming to pack two fermenters, my final volume is around 52L... which seems to be just out of range for a 55L esky if you want to mash-out.

 

[trevc]

55L Willow and beerbelly here too
I'll try running some numbers on a slightly smaller double batch, with 2.2L/kg or similar.

 

[Weizguy]

Trev
It's already been mentioned that the mashout serves 2 purposes, increasing efficiency and denaturing the grain. These are correct as the main 2 reasons, but I thought that I would expand slightly.

As far as efficiency is concerned. The mashout doesn't effect effeciciency of the conversion (well, thats not entirely accurate. But lets say that it is minimal). What it effects (more) is the efficiency of the lauter, and the subsequent sparge. By increasing the liquor ratio, and increasing the temperature, particularly for heavy batches, it changes the amount of sugars that, having already been created and are now in suspension in the water, come away with the water in the first runnings, due to the concentration of sugar/water and the viscosity at the higher temperature. This also means that the sparge has less sugar that it needs to disolve, making the sparge easier. If the liquor ratio in the mash itself is sufficient, this is not an issue anyway. It really is only a problem if the mash itself is too stiff.

Secondly, you have grain denature. This is an issue in large (commercial size) batches, where the grain needs to be denatured before the first runnings, purely because of the amount of time it takes to run out a full batch. In a batch of commercial size, beta activity would continue in the long length of time it takes to drain the tun. In terms of homebrewing, this is not so much of an issue.

So, IMHO, a mashout is not necessary (although with a wheat, of which I have limited knowledge, it may be required because I have heard it can be a bugger to run it out...but that is something an experienced wheat brewer will be able to confirm or deny) if your initial mash ratio was high enough. Having said that it is not necessary, I do a mash out.....not for the purpose of a mashout, per se, but purely that without one, I would not have enough water available to sparge with, purely because my HLT is not big enough .

I was actually running the numbers myself for a double batch the other day, and worked out that I could do it with a mashout, but only just. (I also have a 55L esky). It would have been a tight fit, and I brew low OG.

As a regular (or irregular, for those who know me) brewer of wheat beer, I do not regularly use a mash out procedure.
I do, however, sparge with water to bring the mash bed up to 80C, as the wheat beer has less husk than an all-barley brew, and can stand a hotter temp before leaching tannins. Mash bed temp is important and serves as a mash-out.
I have batch sparged with water just off the boil, as long as I have ensured that the average mash bed temp doesn't exceed the (critical?) 80C. No astringency, as far as I can tell.
This argument may be moot, and depends if you plan on brewing any wheat beer.

Weizguy out

 

[Tony]

HEre is my 2 bobs worth.

When you say double batch.......... i assume you mean 45 to 50 liters. Isnt it amazing how when moving to AG brewing we still think in kit 23 liter volumes.

I brew 52 liter batches as my standard size batch. I have done it for years. I now brew 25 liter batches and no chill them as experimantal beers and something different i dont always want in a 50 liter keg on tap.

Here is what i do on brew day.

Im a "no mash out person too. I actually use my mash out as a B enzyme rest

I have a 50 liter mash tun and an 80 liter kettle.

I mash in at 2 liters / kg at 52 deg for a 15 to 20 min protein rest. I then infuse with boiling water to mash temp, usually around 64 to 65 deg for a regular pale ale type beer in the keg. This infusion always brings me to the 2.9 to 3.1 liters / kg mark.

I mash for the usual 60 min then pump 80 deg water on top of the mash till the mash tun is full. I then pump the lot to the kettle.

I then pump more 80 deg water to the mash tun to the top of the mash till the mash tun is full again. I recirc it for 5 min to settle the bed again and then pump it all the the kettle again. This gives me about 72 deg in the mash.

THis usually gives me a bit less than my total required volume by 4 or 5 liters. I just top up with water and boil it.

I would rather top up at the end than be greedy and over sparge which can be dangerous tanin wise.

I usually get 80% efficiency to the fermenter, sometimes over 85% depending on grain type used.

I get great consistancy and clean clear beers.

hope this helps

Cheers

 

[Tony]

break free of the 23 liter shackels people

To me a double batch is 104 liters :huh:

cheers

 

[Mantis]

break free of the 23 liter shackels people

To me a double batch is 104 liters :huh:

cheers

Heaven

 

[trevc]

So many different ways to accomplish the same end goal, and... it's all tasty BEER in the end. What a hobby

Thanks for the info Tony, Butters, and Les the Wheat-man. So Tony, do you use the standard style 50L kegs (like people make kettles from)? I've always wondered why more people didn't use these instead of the 20L cornies.

23L of beer in bottles never lasts long around here, especially if any mates stop in along the way. 50L would definitely be a better size to brew for. The Smurto JSGA clone is ready soon. I think it'll last 2-3 weeks, TOPS.

I do recipes for 25-28L now, depending on how messy the yeast strain is. Gotta get the most you can out of your time.

I still haven't decided exactly what to do for my slightly higher grav double recipes yet. Lower grav batches at 2-2.2L/kg will fit fine.

 

[Muggus]

break free of the 23 liter shackels people

To me a double batch is 104 liters :huh:

cheers

104 litre of beer! Can you imagine bottling all of that!!!?

 

[Tony]

yeah mate........... 50 liter ones

they last a bit longer

 

[trevc]

104 litre of beer! Can you imagine bottling all of that!!!?

What would that be, around 300 stubbies or so? No thanks. Just fill the kiddie pool with it and toss me right in.