What went wrong??

[Chods1]

Well my first attempt at all grain brewing has been a bit of a flop. I did this at one of the self brew places using their recipe and following their instructions. The beer is a Pirate life Double IPA Clone. This is how I went about it.
Ingredients and times.
5.7gk Maris Otter.
2kg Carapils.
1.7kg Wheat. All these mashed at 69 C for 2hours.
6kg LDM. and 500 gm dextrose.
Bittering 60 mins 40gm Simcoe, 65gm Columbus,[ in the mash]
Flavour 15mins 30gm each Centennial, Mosaic and Simcoe. [ in mash]
Aroma. 5mins 25gm each Centennial, Mosaic and Simcoe. [in mash]
Yeast Nottingham 40 gm
OG 1080 Fg 1022
Then dry hopped at day 7.
Tasted bloody good going into the fermenter but on bottling the beer is slightly sweet to taste and has a thick mouth feel definitely not bitter as it should be and has not the beaut aromas I expected.
Any ideas PLEASE.

 

[Outback]

Your hop additions are written as if given for boil times, which would be normal, and yet you have also put [in mash] including the brackets.
When were the hops added?

 

[Chods1]

After I sparged the grains then the hops were added and boiled for the times indicated

 

[onemorecell]

Just fyi, the mash is when the grains are added. After you take out the grains and start boiling - that's called the boil (which is why we got a bit confused by your timing)

Did you also add 6kg LDM. and 500 gm dextrose, or is that just copied accidentally? (I assume that was the extract version of the recipe)

2kg of carapils is A LOT. Like, a shitload a lot. You'd normally put like 2% in; 200g would be closer to the mark. Sweetness definitely, and thick mouth feel probably, caused by that

Also have you only just bottled it? If so, give it time. once it is cold and carbed it will liven up a bit.

 

[MHB]

Odds on its either
Oxidisation, highly hopped beers go to **** fast if they get even a very small amount of oxygen gets taken up during packaging.
Or
You are picking up a lot of Diacetyl (google it up for taste descriptions), can come from either yeast under stress or some infections. 40g of Nottingham in 50L of 1.080 beer would be pushing the yeast pretty hard (I would have used double that).
Infections well that's a case by case, if it keeps getting worse then its a fair chance its infected.

One more time - all the information on ingredients is meaningless unless you give your volumes to.
Most BOP's (Brew On Premises) do 50L batches, your grain bill comes to 9.4kg, from that in a perfect world you should extract about 77%, giving 7.238kG of potential extract.
The 6kg of LDME will be about 98% solids and the 0.5kg of Dex 91% giving another 6.335 Kg of extract - you will get all of the extract from the LDME and Dex.
If you had 50L of 1.080 wort you would have 10.8kg of extract in solution, you get 6.335kg from the adjunct, means you would be getting 4.465, call it 4.5kg out of your potential 7.24kg.
Comes to around 62% efficiency, I would be wanting to know why it was that low if I were paying an alleged professional retail for my malt.
Of coarse that's completely meaningless if the batch was other than 50L....
Mark

Have a look at Diacetyl in here

 

[onemorecell]

Another one to add - if you did it at a 'brew your own' place, they probably cut-short the fermentation process.

If they did this, it would retain a lot of sweetness that ordinarily should have fermented out

 

[Luxo_Aussie]

I would wait before worrying too much - anything with an OG at 1080 or above would benefit greatly from 6 months in the bottle for the flavours to even out.
Relax, have a homebrew (just not one from this batch!)

 

[Chods1]

Another one to add - if you did it at a 'brew your own' place, they probably cut-short the fermentation process.

If they did this, it would retain a lot of sweetness that ordinarily should have fermented out

They fermented it for 24 days.

 

[Chods1]

Odds on its either
Oxidisation, highly hopped beers go to **** fast if they get even a very small amount of oxygen gets taken up during packaging.
Or
You are picking up a lot of Diacetyl (google it up for taste descriptions), can come from either yeast under stress or some infections. 40g of Nottingham in 50L of 1.080 beer would be pushing the yeast pretty hard (I would have used double that).
Infections well that's a case by case, if it keeps getting worse then its a fair chance its infected.

One more time - all the information on ingredients is meaningless unless you give your volumes to.
Most BOP's (Brew On Premises) do 50L batches, your grain bill comes to 9.4kg, from that in a perfect world you should extract about 77%, giving 7.238kG of potential extract.
The 6kg of LDME will be about 98% solids and the 0.5kg of Dex 91% giving another 6.335 Kg of extract - you will get all of the extract from the LDME and Dex.
If you had 50L of 1.080 wort you would have 10.8kg of extract in solution, you get 6.335kg from the adjunct, means you would be getting 4.465, call it 4.5kg out of your potential 7.24kg.
Comes to around 62% efficiency, I would be wanting to know why it was that low if I were paying an alleged professional retail for my malt.
Of coarse that's completely meaningless if the batch was other than 50L....
Mark

Have a look at Diacetyl in here

Yes it was a 50L batch.

 

[S.E]

but on bottling the beer is slightly sweet to taste and has a thick mouth feel

69C mash is at the high end and will give a sweeter full body beer. Mash lower for a dry and thinner mouth feel.
What was the liquor/grain ratio?

 

[Chods1]

Just fyi, the mash is when the grains are added. After you take out the grains and start boiling - that's called the boil (which is why we got a bit confused by your timing)

Did you also add 6kg LDM. and 500 gm dextrose, or is that just copied accidentally? (I assume that was the extract version of the recipe)

2kg of carapils is A LOT. Like, a shitload a lot. You'd normally put like 2% in; 200g would be closer to the mark. Sweetness definitely, and thick mouth feel probably, caused by that

Also have you only just bottled it? If so, give it time. once it is cold and carbed it will liven up a bit.

The LDM and Dextrose were added. Hmm a bit much Hey? It was carbed for the bottling.

 

[Chods1]

69C mash is at the high end and will give a sweeter full body beer. Mash lower for a dry and thinner mouth feel.
What was the liquor/grain ratio?

Gees thanks for that. As I said this my first all grain and know zilch about it, having only done kits and bits for about 45 years.

 

[onemorecell]

The LDM and Dextrose were added. Hmm a bit much Hey? It was carbed for the bottling.

Ah right - in that case, the ldm itself can give a sweet/full body flavour as well

So a few things could do it in summary: mash temp, oxygen, ldm, carapils, *maybe* not quite fermented out enough (but 24 days sounds ok)

 

[Chods1]

Ah right - in that case, the ldm itself can give a sweet/full body flavour as well

So a few things could do it in summary: mash temp, oxygen, ldm, carapils, *maybe* not quite fermented out enough (but 24 days sounds ok)

OK thanks onemorecell. I'll talk to the brewer and see if my next batch is an improvement.

 

[MHB]

Have a read through How To Brew (free on line), it will give you a pretty good overall idea of where you are going.
There is also a lot wrong with leaving a beer in the fermenter for 24 days. If your primary isn't over in 7 days you have under pitched. Short answer is get primary over and get the beer off the yeast cake within 14 days or you will see measurable harm.
There is a calculation for how much yeast to pitch, working on 0.75 million/mL you are looking at around 145g of Nottingham for a professional brew. Most home brewers will be pitching way less but 40g is way under (just over 1/4 of recommended). Seams a shame to invest all that time and money in a brew then choke when it comes to the yeast!

I still love the old saying "We make wort. Yeast makes beer"
Mark

 

[Chods1]

Have a read through How To Brew (free on line), it will give you a pretty good overall idea of where you are going.
There is also a lot wrong with leaving a beer in the fermenter for 24 days. If your primary isn't over in 7 days you have under pitched. Short answer is get primary over and get the beer off the yeast cake within 14 days or you will see measurable harm.
There is a calculation for how much yeast to pitch, working on 0.75 million/mL you are looking at around 145g of Nottingham for a professional brew. Most home brewers will be pitching way less but 40g is way under (just over 1/4 of recommended). Seams a shame to invest all that time and money in a brew then choke when it comes to the yeast!

I still love the old saying "We make wort. Yeast makes beer"
Mark

Hey MHB that link you gave is bloody great! Thanks.

 

[Coalminer]

Hi Chods
You can get the Latest version of How to Brew V4 for $36 delivered from here
https://www.bookdepository.com/How-...469350?ref=grid-view&qid=1558748981476&sr=1-1
More up to date info and in metric as well

 

[onemorecell]

There is also a lot wrong with leaving a beer in the fermenter for 24 days.

I disagree with that - I've never had an issue with leaving a beer in a fermenter for 3-4 weeks...

 

[MHB]

That's an opinion based on your palate.
I used the term "measurable" in the same way that wort gets darker the longer you boil. Its a measurable change, as is what happens if you leave beer too long on the yeast.
Mark