What is this sweet caramel flavour?

[simo hart]

Gday brewers,

Im after a bit of advice/guidance on what could be going on with my beer.

Iv been using the BIAB method and have been making good beers (usualy SMaSH).
Then 2 brews ago i tried a new recipe (recipe 1) and after i kegged it had a very sweet, caramel like aroma and flavour, i just thought it was the recipe and ended up tipping it down the sink.
Then 3weeks ago i decided to do a Spalt Select SMaSH (recipe 2), after i kegged and carbed hello the same aroma and flavour, i am not really that happy now.

I think it could be one of these things:

-Infection in my fermenter or keg and lines, and yes i do clean and sterilise thoroughly.

- Malt related (bad bag/batch?), before recipe 1 i purchased a 25kg bag of Joe White Pilsner Malt ordered through You Brew It and only used with these 2 brews. Iv used this malt previously with good results, just bought from the brew shop in small bags

-Or my hop additions are to much to close to flame out

The recipe's are there, what do you think?


Recipe 1: Blond Ale.

3.5kg Joe White Export Pilsner Malt

1.8kg Joe White Vienna Malt

30g Saaz Hop Pellets
(15g@60mins, 15g@15mins)

60g Hallertau Hop Pellets (old pellets)
(30g@15mins, 30g@5mins)

11g Safale US-05

OG: 1.047
FG: 1.009


Recipe 2: Spalt Select SMaSH.

5kg Joe White Export Pilsner Malt

100g Spalt Select Hop Cones
(50g@60mins, 50g@10mins)

Safale US-05

OG: 1.054
FG: 1.010

 

[manticle]

Diactetyl possibly.
Can be caused by a few things but start with cleaning your lines and taps thoroughly.

 

[zeggie]

Diactetyl would be my guess

http://byo.com/hops/item/546-diacetyl-homebrew-science

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I,ve cringed before reading ditched beers of this description. Caramel flavours? Many try passionately to get flavors like that.
How can that possibly make you ditch it?

Edit: I'd say just pump up the Hop IBU's next time.

 

[Droopy Brew]

x3 diactyl. Sweet buttery taste- similar to caramel. Let us know your fermentation regime- that will tell a story.

 

[hathro]

Did it taste like this in the fermenter?

 

[osprey brewday]

I,ve cringed before reading ditched beers of this description. Caramel flavours? Many try passionately to get flavors like that.
How can that possibly make you ditch it?

Edit: I'd say just pump up the Hop IBU's next time.

on my second bump up for same reason eliminated all other possibilities put it down to balance and personal taste i am increasing ibu by 5 each batch till i find the perfect balance for my taste. I would describe it as sweet caramel also but not buttery 4 th attempt at same recipe something must be appealing.

 

[Blind Dog]

Are you sure they sent you the right malt?

 

[simo hart]

I fermented both at 17-18c for about a week (when i get the same hydrometer 24 hours apart) in a fridge with an STC-1000.

 

[simo hart]

You could taste the sweetness out of the fermenter however after it was chilled and carbed the sweetness is over powering

 

[simo hart]

Are you sure they sent you the right malt?

It says export pilsner malt on the sack, so im assuming it is.

 

[TheWiggman]

I,ve cringed before reading ditched beers of this description. Caramel flavours? Many try passionately to get flavors like that.
How can that possibly make you ditch it?

Edit: I'd say just pump up the Hop IBU's next time.

If you had chronic diacetyl in a beer you'd tip it too. Completely overrides anything in the beer, the head is excessively bitter and hop character is completely stripped and replaced by rubbish sugary 'tang'. Life's too short to drink shitty beer.

 

[TheWiggman]

Simo, assuming it's diacetyl (which I think it is) a week at that temp is too short. Allow the beer to raise to 20°C near the end of the ferment. Give it 3-5 days at FG in the primary and you should be good to go. Also, if you're not rehydrating the yeast prior to pitching do that to so it increases your live cell count and puts less stress on the yeast.

 

[Blind Dog]

Google 'The Complete Beer Fault Guide by Thomas Barnes' (can't link on iPad). Might help you track down possible causes. Diacetyl I've come across has been more buttery than caramel, but it's still might be your best bet.

Another daft question - you do boil with the pot uncovered?

 

[Bribie G]

Many people confuse caramel with butterscotch, which is a bit frustrating when you are trying to help them.

Ok get a packet of Werthers Original drops from any supermarket or newsagency. If that's the flavour you are getting then it's diacetyl.
Otherwise if it tastes more like a mars bar then it's caramel.

 

[Benn]

Residual sugars?

 

[Screwtop]

Are you positive it's caramel. Maybe its honey. Most likely VDK (vicinal diketones) and possible 2.3 Pentanedione. Had the same problem years ago, due to fermentation issues. Changing yeast strain (away from US05) and extending fermentation time to 14 days fixed it.

Check this out:http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer_brewing/brewers_yeast/yeast_byproducts.htm


Screwy

 

[simo hart]

Simo, assuming it's diacetyl (which I think it is) a week at that temp is too short. Allow the beer to raise to 20°C near the end of the ferment. Give it 3-5 days at FG in the primary and you should be good to go. Also, if you're not rehydrating the yeast prior to pitching do that to so it increases your live cell count and puts less stress on the yeast.

Cheers thewiggman, i do rehydrate the yeast but i dont raise the temp of my fermenter. I think i mite be pushing the fermentation time a little bit quick, zeggie posted a link with a load of good info on diacetyl and it says if you leave it longer the yeast should re consume most of it[emoji106]

 

[simo hart]

Google 'The Complete Beer Fault Guide by Thomas Barnes' (can't link on iPad). Might help you track down possible causes. Diacetyl I've come across has been more buttery than caramel, but it's still might be your best bet.

Another daft question - you do boil with the pot uncovered?

When i doe in my grains the lid goes on, after the mash is done i sparg and then boil with the lid off.

 

[Bridges]

Are you positive it's caramel. Maybe its honey. Most likely VDK (vicinal diketones) and possible 2.3 Pentanedione. Had the same problem years ago, due to fermentation issues. Changing yeast strain (away from US05) and extending fermentation time to 14 days fixed it.

Check this out:http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer_brewing/brewers_yeast/yeast_byproducts.htm


Screwy

Away from US05 and towards? Love to know thanks Screwy