What I Am Brewing With My Chinese Hops

[winkle]

Chu Dat Hopf Phat
IIPA

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Boil Size: 22.89 L

Ingredients

6.50 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 83.33 %
0.50 kg Rice, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 6.41 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
66.00 gm Nugget C [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 70.2 IBU
30.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.3 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (10 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
25.00 gm Cascade C [5.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU

Just in case anyone was interested beside me, this has cranked down to 1.020 with a few days dry hopping to go. Its a nice red/brown and smells great, I'd dropped the dry hopping to 10gm BTW. Hydro sample was bloody tasty too, this should be far more successful than the Marco Polo single hopped beer (which will need considerable more conditioning time to lose the resinous mouthfeel).

 

[AndrewQLD]

Drinking a Golden Ale at the moment, bittered with Marco polo and flavour/aroma with amarillo.
I'm happy with the Marco Polo as a bittering hop, it's smooth and didn't affect the amarillo flavour in any way. Mind you I didn't use a ton of the Marco Polo just used it to sub out the Super Alpha.
Nice beer.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Bribie G]

I've just kegged a Belgian with 80g of Chinese Saaz and a couple of Styrian Plugs added very late. Bittering and flavouring are spotless, lets see how the #2 Saaz turn out in February.
Racked a UK Special Bitter into cold conditioning last night - 50g Chinese Cluster and 20g Northdown at 10 mins. Tasting very promising.

When that's out of the way it will be followed into CC by a similar beer with 50g Cluster and 20g Challenger 10 minutes.

Now to attempt a Timohee Tayrors Randrord

 

[Fourstar]

Just started the sparge on my Marco Polo Pale Ale.

Marco? POLO!
American Pale Ale

Type: All Grain
Date: 24/12/2009
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0

Ingredients
3.00 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 53.6 %
2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 35.7 %
0.30 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 5.4 %
0.20 kg Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
0.10 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (17.3 SRM) Grain 1.8 %
40.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (15 min) Hops 26.5 IBU
10.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 14.7 IBU
20.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (5 min) Hops 5.3 IBU
30.00 gm Marco Polo [12.00%] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
6.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 46.4 IBU
Est Color: 6.7 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 14.62 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 75 min
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 78.4 C 70.0 C 10 min

Notes
2g cacl in mash
6g CaSO4 in Boil

 

[NickB]

Just kegged my Great Wall of Hops MKI (Chinese Cascade)

This was dry hopped with 30g Cascade for 2 days, then filtered and force carbed.

Don't taste any off flavours, but the flavour and aroma of these hops are somewhat subdued compared to the American varieties. Have to say though, that the Chinese Cascade tastes pretty damn similar to the NZ Cascade to me. Fruity, with a little peach and passionfruit, but nothing over the top.

They get the thumbs up from me, but I will be using some US hops late in the boil or to dry hop the next batch to add extra punch.


Cheers

 

[NickB]

Just filtered an carbed the Great Wall of Hops MKII (Marco Polo)....

Could be the fact that the carbonation is lacking, or the fact that it's just been kegged, but I get a distinctly harsh aftertaste to this beer. Hop bill was the same as the previous batch, but just a little later in the boil due to the AA%, so the IBU, ABV etc should be very close.

It's not terribly unpleasant, but it'a not a flavour I really like.

From what I've seen, combining the Chinese Cascade, plus the Marco Polo should yield a decent APA style beer, but you would need to up your hops by as much as 50-60% to compensate for the subdued flavour and aroma from these hops.

I think these are closer to NZ cascade than anything else.

I will say, the MP tastes exactly as it smells (well, when you dry hop it anyway!), but I would say it smells like an american hop.

Final verdict: The MP will make a pretty bloody good (and damn cheap) bittering hop for US style beers, and the Cascade will work well in filling out the flavour side of APAs in combination with actual American hops...

Verdict to come on Chinese Saaz and Cluster

Cheers!

 

[browndog]

Here is the APA I plan on doing with my chinese cascade next brew, with 120g of cascade, it should show some aroma you would think.


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Chop Chop 30 APA
Brewer: Browndog
Asst Brewer: Jess
Style: American Pale Ael
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L
Boil Size: 32.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 6.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.25 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SRM)Grain 82.52 %
0.30 kg Amber Malt (Joe White) (23.0 SRM) Grain 5.83 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.83 %
0.30 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.83 %
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.9 IBU
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (30 min) Hops 14.6 IBU
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
30.00 gm Chinese Cascade [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days)Hops -
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs US05 From Trub (Safale) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.15 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 13.44 L of water at 78.6 C 65.0 C


cheers

Browndog

 

[NickB]

That looks suspiciously like my recipe in regard to the hops...however I hopburst mine, 25, 15, 10 and dry hop.

Cheers

 

[browndog]

That looks suspiciously like my recipe in regard to the hops...however I hopburst mine, 25, 15, 10 and dry hop.

Cheers

What can I say Nick, Great minds think alike!, looking forward to a side by side comparison mate.

cheers

Browndog

 

[NickB]

Sounds like a plan. I'm leaning towards liking the MP slightly more than the cascade, but I do think both will work best with other hops.

:icon_offtopic: Can't wait to hear how you like the Citra hops... I have some as well!

Cheers

 

[browndog]

Sounds like a plan. I'm leaning towards liking the MP slightly more than the cascade, but I do think both will work best with other hops.

:icon_offtopic: Can't wait to hear how you like the Citra hops... I have some as well!

Cheers

Unfortunately, after brewing with it and smelling and tasting it seems to be a pretty run of the mill american hop. I hope the proof will be in the pudding.

cheers

Browndog

 

[clarkey7]

Here is the APA I plan on doing with my chinese cascade next brew, with 120g of cascade, it should show some aroma you would think.

I put 180g during the boil and 60g dryhop in 21L with these CC hops.
I'm more than happy with the bitterness and flavour...BUT the aroma was underdone for what I threw at this beer.

In future I will use CC for bittering and flavour mainly and combine with other hops for late additions and DH.

But we all wanted to know what they were like so we single hopped all our beers...

PB

 

[daemon]

The keg of my Summer Ale was barely lasted through Christmas day and was nearly perfect. Galaxy malt to 5%, 60min bittering edition to 20IBU's and a 10min 10g addition to add just a splash of flavour. There were a few that could pick a slight lemon flavour but otherwise the usual XXXX / TED's sat in the eskys while this was available.

Not a bad hop for this style because it's bland / nearly aroma free. Would be ok blended in an IPA/APA as well but not overly fussed with the Chinese Cascade as a single flavour / aroma hop.

 

[Fourstar]

I'm half way thru the boil on a Pseudo Pilsner, all w/ Chinese Saaz. should be a good beer to slam back over the hot summer days ahead.

Nothing harder than sweating it out brewing in 37 deg Melbourne heat. I'm sweating like a Chinese hop picker! :beerbang:

Chinese Pseudo Pilsner
Bohemian Pilsner

Type: All Grain
Date: 30/12/2009
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden
Boil Size: 30.90 L
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0

Ingredients
4.65 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 94.9 %
0.25 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.1 %
40.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 21.7 IBU
60.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (20 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
30.00 gm Saaz [4.30%] (0 min) Hops -
7.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 %
Bitterness: 39.7 IBU
Est Color: 3.2 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 13.72 L of water at 73.1 C 67.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 9.80 L of water at 74.8 C 70.0 C 10 min

Notes
3g mash cacl
4g Boil cacl

 

[winkle]

The keg of my Summer Ale was barely lasted through Christmas day and was nearly perfect. Galaxy malt to 5%, 60min bittering edition to 20IBU's and a 10min 10g addition to add just a splash of flavour. There were a few that could pick a slight lemon flavour but otherwise the usual XXXX / TED's sat in the eskys while this was available.

Not a bad hop for this style because it's bland / nearly aroma free. Would be ok blended in an IPA/APA as well but not overly fussed with the Chinese Cascade as a single flavour / aroma hop.

+1 Donno why but both the Cascade and Marco Polo had a fair bit of aroma (though nowhere near as much as you'd expect) coming out of the fermenters but after a weeks cool keg conditioning almost zip :blink:
The AIPA I brewed will have to be dry hopped (with NZ hops) in keg to provide some decent aroma, this after using 25gm Chinese Cascade at 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, and 15gm dry hop! Flavour seems muted but ok at the moment - I hope it doesn't do a Marco Polo and fade out as well .

 

[davewaldo]

Hi Everyone,

Quick question.... I'm trying to discover the true AA% of the Chinese Cascade Hops. On the 1st page of this thread it says they are 4.5%. Many of the recipes in this thread say they are 5.5 or 5.8. The craftbrewer site syas they are 5.8

The problem is, I've made a Bright ale which I bittered with them calculated at 4.5%, and its tasting more bitter than I planned.

I've tried searching through the mountains of posts but can't find the answer.

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

David.

 

[bradsbrew]

Hi Everyone,

Quick question.... I'm trying to discover the true AA% of the Chinese Cascade Hops. On the 1st page of this thread it says they are 4.5%. Many of the recipes in this thread say they are 5.5 or 5.8. The craftbrewer site syas they are 5.8

The problem is, I've made a Bright ale which I bittered with them calculated at 4.5%, and its tasting more bitter than I planned.

I've tried searching through the mountains of posts but can't find the answer.

Any help would be great.

Cheers,

David.

Gday Dave, Mate I have kept my cascade hops but i will put them at 10% when calculating IBU because IMO they are alot higher than we were quoted. This is just what I will be doing personally when I get back to using them and I will only use them as a bittering hop in conjuntion with late US cascade and chinook.

Brad

 

[dth]

After lurking for some time I'm going to make my first real post here.

Not knowing how good the Chinese hops were, I didn't want to risk a huge amount of beer on something that could prove to be completely undrinkable. As my mashing setup isn't really a suitable size for single batches (having a 50L mash tun makes it more suitable for at least double if not triple batches) I decided to do an extract brew. It was also my first ever extract, having skipped straight from K&K to full mash after tasting the amazing flavours from my brother-in-laws full mash beers. I decided to do a sort of APA with the recipe is as follows:

US APA - Multicultural APA (German/Australian Malt, UK Yeast, Chinese Hops)

1.50Kg Liquid Wheat Malt Extract
0.50Kg Dried Malt Extract
0.25Kg Weyermann Carapils
0.25Kg Dextrose

Hop Schedule:
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 17g 60min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 20g 15min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 15g 5min
Chinese Cascade 5.8% 18g Dry Hopped

Approx 24.9IBU (bit under for an APA, but I wanted to get a feel for the hops before going too over the top)

Yeast Safale-S04 (I know, not really suited to an American style, but it was the best option I had on hand)


I used the Carapils to help give it a bit more flavour and help increase the body because of the dextrose. I don't currently have really good temperature control, and with the weather here being 35C+ most days I decided to overpitch the yeast to help try and minimize ester production. With the huge amount of yeast and high temps it was fully fermented out within about 3 days. Due to illness, I didn't get around to kegging it for more than a week after that, but I was planning on leaving it for a while to help clean up the high temp ferment a bit.

When I kegged it there was intense hop aroma, smelled and tasted absolutely lovely, a bit unbalanced perhaps but good for being straight from the fermenter. After a week in the keg the flavour and aroma has mellowed and blended a bit but still has a good presence. The bitterness is great, nothing too harsh and I would definitely use these hops as a bittering addition in US style beers.

Unfortunately I've never used real American Cascade so I can't compare, but from this impression I feel the Chinese Cascade is quite adequate. If I manage not to drink it all too quickly I'll have to see how the flavour/aroma goes with age as some reports have said dies right of after a couple weeks. If the flavour and aroma stick around all right I'll use these hops for the full schedule again no worries. If not, then I'll use them only for bittering or for occasions where the beer will be drunk shortly after production.

Overall its made a great easy drinking quaffer, balanced with a great fruitiness and decent bitterness perfect for the hot weather here at the moment.