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What happens when you repitch a different yeast?

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GrumpyPaul

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Hi all
A question for the yeast gods...

Recently I did a brew that the original yeast (Wyeast 1318)pitched failed to start. After a couple of days of no action I pitched a sachet of S04. Everything worked out in the end and it is looking and tasting good (almost ready to bottle)

My questions are...

Is the original yeast "dead in the water" (or wort) so to speak and does nothing to the brew if it failed to start.
Or does the second pitching of the different yeast somehow kick start it.
Do I only get the effect of the second pitching (S04) or will the original (1318) have some impact on the flavour.
Do I end up with both having some impact on the flavour - just the extent of the original (1318) could be a little or a lot depending on how much of it kicked in (if any).
Have I essentially pitched some weird hybrid of the 2 yeasts.

Just wondering....

GrumpyPaul

Eidtied the appalling typos and spelling in the oriinal
 

GalBrew

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Did you pitch the appropriate amount of 1318 to start with?
What was the date on the packet?
Did you do a starter or just smack it and pitch?

More info please......
 

GrumpyPaul

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Just smacked it...

Not sure on the date - sorry the packet went straight in the bin and brewday/night was bin night so it was long gone before I realsied I didnt check it.

I can say it was purchased in December and has been sitting in my fridge since then.

How long do they keep in the fridge?
 

GalBrew

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Also what was the batch size?

And did the pack swell, also what was your OG?
 

GrumpyPaul

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It was meant to be 18 litres but ended up with 17 in the fermenter.

Pitched at about 26deg.

Fermentation fridge set at 19deg.

No action after 2 days turned it up to 20.

No action by day 3 - gave up and pitched the S04 (single sachet)
 

GrumpyPaul

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Pack swelled a bit - but not as much as I am used to.

OG was 1047 (was aiming for 1045 in the expected 18litres)
 

GalBrew

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According to Mr Malty you have underpitched (not even taking into account the age of the pack). You would have needed 1.5x fresh smack packs for 17L without a starter, so that would explain your lack of activity (long lag phase). Whether the s-04 has outcompeted the 1318 or you have a hybrid I wouldn't know.
 

bum

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Dare I ask - what do you mean by "action"? (WWBD? :ph34r: )

Not sure much of this extra info has a lot to do with your question though. You're asking if competition can cause a dormant yeast to fire up, yeah? No clue personally but I'll be interested to read the replies of those who do.
 

GrumpyPaul

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bum said:
Dare I ask - what do you mean by "action"? (WWBD? :ph34r: )

Not sure much of this extra info has a lot to do with your question though. You're asking if competition can cause a dormant yeast to fire up, yeah? No clue personally but I'll be interested to read the replies of those who do.
I love the way you summed up my question so succinctly - yeah will the dormant yeast fire up ?

By action I meant no sign of Krausen or change in the hydro reading
 

GalBrew

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I figured I would focus on the:

"Is the original yeast "dead in the water" (or wort) so to speak and does nothing to the brew if it failed to start"

part....the rest I have no idea.
 

bum

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Wasn't meaning to have a dig. That stuff obviously has a real effect on his beer.
 

GalBrew

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No problemo..... :D

I figure the only way to find out will be the flavour of the resultant beer right??

Shouldn't be too hard to distinguish between the profiles of 1318 and s-04? Also 1318 looks like a higher attenuator than s-04, so if your beer rolls over at around 1.020 I would say s-04 has won the battle of the yeasts.

Looks like they are similar in terms of attenuation after all, I retract my previous statement. :p
 

GrumpyPaul

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It got down to 1010 before I racked it onto some cherries in the secondary.

If this helps work out the attentuation and whcih one might have won the battle
 

GalBrew

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You were fermenting at 20degC, so s-04 probably wouldn't stall around 1.020 like it does at lower temps (17-18degC).
Other than flavour, I'm not sure there is any other way to find out. Both strains are similar in attenuation and floccing capability, so even structurally these yeasts should look similar.

Either way you will have beer :party:
 

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