Westmalle Dubbel

[Sean]

I don't normally try to clone beers, but Abbey styles are outside my normal range and I haven't had access to my favorite in ages. So, has anyone got any information that might be helpful in reproducing something in the vacinity of Westmalle Dubbel? All grain of course.

 

[warrenlw63]

Sean,

According to Michael Jackson Westmalle Dubbel has a gravity of 15.7 plato (1.063) also has dark malt and candi sugar. The beer has an alcohol content of 5.2 by weight and 6.5 by volume.

Hopping is a combination of Styrian Goldings (what Belgian beer isn't ), Tettnanger and Saaz.

Monks being the crafty blokes that they are, you'll be hard pressed to find much more than that ingredients-wise.

My own guess, taking a stab at it would be to go for some Pils Malt, Dark Munich Malt, Cara Munich, Cara Aroma and a small amount of Carafa I. You'll need about 5%+ dark or amber Candi Sugar (or about 500g per 23 litre batch). Hopping would be about 25 IBUs. Don't forget a good Belgian yeast (of course). Wyeast 3787 would be good.

My own favourite is 3522 (Belg. Ardennes).

Hope this helps -

Warren -

 

[wee stu]

Or you could try this from the Beer Captured book

19 L, OG 1.070 - 73, FG 1.013-15, srm 25, IBU 19, ABV 7%

5.21kg pilsner
226g caramunich
142g Beligian biscuit malt
71g chocolate
340g belgian dark candi sugar

suggests 90 min mash at 66c

90 minute boil

85g 5.3% Styrian Goldens (90min) (this is the only hop addition they give)

wyeast 1388 (Belgian Strong) or 1726 (Belgian Abbey II)

Haven't tried the recipe, or indeed any from the book, which I only picked up on Saturday. Nor have I run it through beersmith to test the figures.
So, caveat emptor etc, etc.

 

[warrenlw63]

Sean,

I just put this through ProMash. See what you think of it.

Actually looks so tempting I might even give it a go myself. Efficiency is at 75% YMMV

Warren -

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-B Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Dubbel

Min OG: 1.062 Max OG: 1.075
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 25
Min Clr: 25 Max Clr: 36 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.00
Anticipated OG: 1.065 Plato: 15.98
Anticipated EBC: 62.8
Anticipated IBU: 23.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 29.68 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051 SG 12.54 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0 3.00 kg. Hoepfner Pilsner malt Germany 1.038 4
33.3 2.00 kg. JWM Dark Munich Australia 1.039 32
1.7 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 1277
4.2 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 167
2.5 0.15 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 470
8.3 0.50 kg. Candi Sugar (amber) Generic 1.046 198

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 20.9 90 min.
20.00 g. Tettnanger Whole 4.50 2.2 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes

 

[neonmeate]

wyeast 3787 (or WLP530) is the Westmalle (and Westvleteren) yeast. watch out using it though, this yeast goes absolutely nuts. it eats through everything and anything. I had a 1095 beer get down to 1014 in three days (and that was in the middle of winter).
so you might want to mash pretty high, use more crystal malts, etc to get the same FG.

according to protz the water source at westmalle is very hard so some gypsum might be in order.

he also mentions some deliberate caramelisation during the boil which seems right from what i remember it tasting like.

good luck with it, it's a great beer.

 

[warrenlw63]

wyeast 3787 (or WLP530) is the Westmalle (and Westvleteren) yeast. watch out using it though, this yeast goes absolutely nuts. it eats through everything and anything.

[post="56415"][/post]​

Neonmeate, I had similar results with it myself.

Beer had OG of 1.095, FG was similar to yours. Made the beer very dry and had too much alcoholic warmth. Wound up with a keg of beer that basically I couldn't drink. (Belg. dark strong ale).

Ended up salvaging and blending it in with some lower gravity porter and dividing into 2 kegs. Worked well... The combination of aged (6months) and new beer gave the hybrid porter some very nice complexity.

But as a Belgian Strong Ale it sucked major arse.

That's why I listed 3522 as the yeast for this. It's not what I believe to be the Westmalle yeast (think it's La Chouffe's). However it leaves some really nice, complex, malty, very Belgian like esters and has a very broad temp. range.

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

wyeast 3787 (or WLP530) is the Westmalle (and Westvleteren) yeast. watch out using it though, this yeast goes absolutely nuts. it eats through everything and anything.

[post="56415"][/post]​

Neonmeate, I had similar results with it myself.

Beer had OG of 1.095, FG was similar to yours. Made the beer very dry and had too much alcoholic warmth. Wound up with a keg of beer that basically I couldn't drink. (Belg. dark strong ale).

Ended up salvaging and blending it in with some lower gravity porter and dividing into 2 kegs. Worked well... The combination of aged (6months) and new beer gave the hybrid porter some very nice complexity.

But as a Belgian Strong Ale it sucked major arse.

That's why I listed 3522 as the yeast for this. It's not what I believe to be the Westmalle yeast (think it's La Chouffe's). However it leaves some really nice, complex, malty, very Belgian like esters and has a very broad temp. range.

Warren -

[post="56423"][/post]​

sounds like a nice mix - i've got some porter i think is a bit boring that i want to do something with, maybe ill mix some of my quadrupel in...
on the other hand 1014 or so isn't necessarily too low for belgian beers, you do want fairly dry (but you don't want thin). i don't really go for the supersweet ones.
actually i think the actual malts you use, and the yeast strain, matter more for the mouthfeel than how high or low the FG is. still, it is a bit surprising when you end up with a 10% beer instead of a 7.5%er!

yeah, i gotta try the 3522, i love la chouffe. apparently it's quite phenolic?

 

[warrenlw63]

yeah, i gotta try the 3522, i love la chouffe. apparently it's quite phenolic?

[post="56431"][/post]​

Neonmeate,

The phenols are relative to fermentation temps. Higher end will create more, lower temps will create less, highlight the esters and peppery character of this yeast.

I'm serious when I say that it can create most Belgian styles. It's very nice at low temps . Albeit with sluggish fermentation. Has a range from 18-29c.

I've made tripels, wits, La Chouffe clone (very nice) and a dubbel with it.

Next project will maybe be a Saison. At higher temps it would be interesting. Haven't been game enough to try 29c yet though.

Warren -

 

[onescooter]

I got this recipe from a book called "Brew Classic European Beers At Home" by Graham Wheeler and Rojer Protz. Never tried the recipe or the beer so I don't know if if it accurate but here goes,
Ingredients are for a 25 litre batch

Lager malt ( Pilsen ) - 6.5 kg
Chocolate malt - 155 grams
White sucrose - 300 grams

Start of Boil
Styrian Golding Hops - 10 grams
Saaz - 20 grams
Tettnang - 15 grams

Mash Schedule
50 degrees C - 30 mins
66 degrees C - 60 mins

Boil time - 90 mins
O.G. - 1064
Racking gravity - 1013
Alcohol content - 6.8%
Bitterness - 20 EBU
Colour - 55 EBC

Hope this helps.

 

[dicko]

Hi onescooter,

The concern I would have with the procedure is the 30 minute rest at 50 deg c.

I have read that a long protien rest may cause poor head retention with malts that in real terms dont require that rest.

With most grains in Aus you wont need a rest longer than 10 to 15 mins if you chose to do a protein rest at all.

Cheers

 

[onescooter]

Dicko,
I'm pretty new to the all grain scene, so I don't know the abilities of the different grains around the place. I have just been using the recipes in the book word for word so I don't stuff up completely. My guess is that because the book comes from Europe, different grains and all, different mash schedules can be employed.
Thanks for the tip on the protein rest though, I shall be cutting the time down next time to give it a go.
Thanks
Scott.

 

[Sean]

Hi onescooter,

The concern I would have with the procedure is the 30 minute rest at 50 deg c.

I have read that a long protien rest may cause poor head retention with malts that in real terms dont require that rest.

With most grains in Aus you wont need a rest longer than 10 to 15 mins if you chose to do a protein rest at all.

Cheers

[post="57946"][/post]​

I could well be wrong - it's been far too long since I've had any Westmalle Dubbel, but I don't remember it having great head retention.