Water Volumes For Mash Stages?

[SJW]

I have started using German grain and am doing a 50 degC protein reast now, and Beersmith appears to leave the volumes of each step up to the brewer. So I was wondering is there a rule of thumb as to the volumes of each step?
I have been using 1 litre per kg of grain for the protein rest, then adding 1.5 litres per kg of grain to make 2.5 litres per kg of grain for the saccrification but if I dont do as mashout it leaves a lot of water left to sparge with, in the order of 26 litres when using about 6.5kgs of grain for a 28 litre batch. I thought that running that much water through could draw out unwanted tannins? or does'nt it matter as long as the sparge does not drop below about 1.010?
Am I on the right track or is this standard practice?

STEPHEN

 

[Tony M]

Everybody seems to be ignoring you SJW, so Ill have a go.
Let me quote Stephen Snyder (Brewmasters Bible) when he is discussing step mashing.
Experts often advise having a thick mash during the protein rest (50C) which favours the protein-converting proteolytic enzymes (whatever that means mused Tony), followed by the addition of hot water to give a thinner mash when raising the temperature to 66/70C which favours the starch-converting diastatic enzymes. This method allows both types of enzyme to work in their optimum environment.
The ratios you are suggesting fall within his guidelines. As far as your concerns with tannins go, I not uncommonly run 25 or more litres thru the grain at sparge and have sometimes gone below this magic .010 figure. I do taste the runoff when it is getting around this figure and have occasionally detected a slight husky flavour, then I make up my boil volume with plain water.
Once you have extracted the bulk of the sugars, there can be no earthly reason that I know of to continue the sparge.

 

[shmick]

I have started using German grain and am doing a 50 degC protein reast now, and Beersmith appears to leave the volumes of each step up to the brewer. So I was wondering is there a rule of thumb as to the volumes of each step?
I have been using 1 litre per kg of grain for the protein rest, then adding 1.5 litres per kg of grain to make 2.5 litres per kg of grain for the saccrification but if I dont do as mashout it leaves a lot of water left to sparge with, in the order of 26 litres when using about 6.5kgs of grain for a 28 litre batch. I thought that running that much water through could draw out unwanted tannins? or does'nt it matter as long as the sparge does not drop below about 1.010?
Am I on the right track or is this standard practice?

STEPHEN

[post="69555"][/post]​

What is your pre-boil volume Stephen?
If you are mashing 6.5kg @ 2.5litres/kg = 16.25 litres
Add 26 litres sparge = 42.25 litres pre-boil.

For a 28 litre batch I get figures (Beersmith) of 32.4 litres for a 90 min boil.
This would only leave 16.15 litres to sparge with which is not unusual.

Am I off track here?

 

[Tony M]

Shmick, Dont forget that 6.5l or thereabouts will stay absorbed in the grainbed and another litre or two will stay in the tun after the lauter.
edit----------and my boiler loses about 7litres in 90 minutes

 

[SJW]

OK, My boil size is 35.90 litres for 75 mins to end up with 28 litres. With 6.50 litres for Protein rest, 9.00 litres for Saccrification that leave about 26.50 litres of sparge.
And as our good buddie Toni points out there will be about 6.5 litres in the grain.

 

[SJW]

Thanks for your input Tony. I work on about 10 - 12 % heating & cooling losses, but like I said I have always simply used the Beersmith calcs for Single infusion, but for some reason when u select Double Infusion Mashing profile it puts some crazy figures in with a 30min protein rest & a 30min mash. So now I am adjusting these figures myself I was just after some clarification.
So thanks, that all sounds good, and it does not sound like I need to be too strict with these water vols.


STEPHEN

 

[shmick]

Shmick, Dont forget that 6.5l or thereabouts will stay absorbed in the grainbed and another litre or two will stay in the tun after the lauter.
edit----------and my boiler loses about 7litres in 90 minutes

[post="69773"][/post]​

Sincerest appologies for going off-track there Stephen .
Must have been having a bit of a mental vacation :wacko: .
Always run the risk of that when reading forums at work .