Wasted Hops?

[slcmorro]

Not sure what happened here...

My post was:

See below photo - freshly dried and frozen Cascade flower, that I dumped out of the hop sock after 10 mins at the end of the boil. So much leftover delicious lupulin (the flower tastes bitter still) - makes me wonder if this is normal?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Maybe cos it's only been in there 10mins? Unless it all gets released from the flowers and isomerisation is independent of it, but I'm no expert.

 

[slcmorro]

Can anyone else comment? Is this 'usual'?

 

[Pogierob]

Sorry i can't give advice, but I'm going to be chopping up my home grown hops before putting them in thanks to this little thread.

 

[yum beer]

Can't say I have looked that closely at any flowers after the boil but would assume that if you left them in for 40 or more minutes then you will get much more lupilin off the flower.
I know that late flowers are stickier than flowers added early when removed after the boil.

 

[IsonAd]

Interesting. Ill be brewing with some if my homegrown cascade tomorrow I'll take a few picks and let you know.

 

[gunbrew]

This was happening with my home grown hops.(free in boil, no hop sock)
Now I blend my hops with a bamix before addition to brew.

 

[stux]

Some people recommend blending/blitzing flower additions. Now you know why

 

[Judanero]

Beat to it by gun and stux, I like to give them a quick chop before putting them in.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Does this have any correlation perhaps to the oft quoted usage of more flowers than pellets. If we blendrd or chopped flowers would it mean usage of same ratio by weight flowers to pellets?

 

[Judanero]

I chop the flowers so that the lupulin is more accessible to the movement of wort, kind of like how it is easier to wash sand from your scalp when you've got a shaved head than to when you've got hair.

It seems to me to make a difference but whether or not that is just psychosomatic... I used to blend them (quick pulse) but I found a lot of the lupulin would stay in the base of the blender- I wanted it in my wort and my wife didn't want it in her blender so I switched to just a quick couple chops with the scissors and once again there was harmony on the Serengeti.

I thought more flowers was just by volume not really by weight?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Hmm, first I've heard of anyone measuring hops by volume?

 

[Judanero]

What I mean is by the same weight flowers occupy a greater volume, not measuring by volume.

I've never really noticed having to use more flowers than pellets to get the same result, is there a significant difference between the two?

 

[n87]

From my understanding standard pellets (T90 i think) have some of the crap removed (bugs, stems, twigs).

So i guess the theory is that they have a more concentrated goodie to weight ratio thank straight flowers

 

[Judanero]

Yeah true, I guess that makes sense- and T45 are more refined again.. maybe I will add an extra 5-10% when using flowers and see if it's noticeable.

Sorry for OT

 

[stux]

think T90 is the best 90%, and T45 is the best 45%

So, T90 has 10% crap removed.

Which neatly correlates with BeerSmith's 10% "Pellet Hop Adjustment" thing

 

[Judanero]

I've had beersmith for a while but only been using it for basic recipe formulation, I haven't really played around with a lot of the functions it's capable of.... only two days ago did I discover you could use the 'add-ons' to get more malts :unsure:

Is the pellet hop adjustment in tools?

 

[stux]

I've had beersmith for a while but only been using it for basic recipe formulation, I haven't really played around with a lot of the functions it's capable of.... only two days ago did I discover you could use the 'add-ons' to get more malts :unsure:

Is the pellet hop adjustment in tools?

Think it happens magically when you specify the type of the hops. BUT the amount it uses is in Preferences->Bitterness

 

[Bribie G]

With flowers used as a late addition you can rescue them then use them in the next brew as part or even all of the bittering addition to make use of the goodness still left in them. I believe that a lot of old UK breweries who use a hopback do (or used to do) that.

I used NZ Hallertau Aroma Flowers myself in a similar way a few years ago, but did it arse about:

I used boiling water and a French Press to extract flavour and aroma, as in a hop back. Ended up with a litre of green liquid that I put in the fridge.

Then I used the "spent" hops in the Boil and despite their steeping they still turned out nicely bittering.

I'll rephrase that: very adequately bittering for the style. On pitching in the FV I chucked in the jar of flavour/aroma extract and it turned out a very nice blonde ale in the end.

Problem is that whilst the method works with flowers, it's real "seat of the pants" stuff and no way of really calculating what IBU you are going to end up with.

 

[slcmorro]

Cheers lads. I'll mince em up next time. I'm only ever going to use them as late additions anyways, I bitter with pellets still.