Want to hear about ways to work with 10A outlet limits

[Zorco]

I heard butchers have a greater than average incidence of cuts from knives as well. Wish they knew what the frig they were doing....

Anyway, some of the stupidity coming out of engineering companies is astonishing.

I think a point about generalising has been made... but only if it is perceived that way.

 

[wynnum1]

I heard butchers have a greater than average incidence of cuts from knives as well. Wish they knew what the frig they were doing....

Anyway, some of the stupidity coming out of engineering companies is astonishing.

I think a point about generalising has been made... but only if it is perceived that way.

Funny you never hear of butcher shops being robbed by knife wielding bandits .

 

[philistine]

I don't want to recommend anything unsafe or illegal, but there is a workable solution to your problem without calling in an electrician (who won't necessarily know what he is doing anyway.) Your "10A" circuits are usually wired with wire that can handle a lot more safely if it is not too old, and the fuse shouldn't actually blow with that load - but let's protect your family:

Preferably when the rest of the family is out so you don't upset them. One at a time, kill the main switch, remove a fuse, then run around the house with a light or something and find out which power points don't work. You should be able to find at least two circuits you can work with. If you need to, buy one of the outdoor striped extensions from Bunnings or whatever (the insulation is better and you will be dealing with heat and water.) You'll probably have to set a few clocks and things before SWMBO gets home and check your smoke alarms, but everyone will be safe.

[I worked as an "associate engineer" in the power industry for many years and the worst wiring mistakes I saw were by licenced electricians, who are also the most often electrocuted. Much better to be safe and legal than just legal.]

HAha, thats pretty much exactly what I did yesterday arvo.... Missus was in the lounge room and I just casually walked in, unplugged a lamp without saying anything and walked out..... "what are you doing?" i Heard her call out..."Nothing" I say as I start roaming around the house looking for powerpoints and flicking fuses

Turns out strangely enough, that the room closest to the back door and the deck area (which is where I want to brew), has two powerpoints on separate circuits only a meter apart on the same wall -BINGO!

I was also given a totally unorthodox bit of advice from an electrician who recommended that I buy a 15A extension lead (or two) and just file the earth pin down so it fits in a 10A socket, just for that extra bit of insulation and thicker wire guage

 

[koshari]

I was also given a totally unorthodox bit of advice from an electrician who recommended that I buy a 15A extension lead (or two) and just file the earth pin down so it fits in a 10A socket, just for that extra bit of insulation and thicker wire guage

alternatively you can buy higher rated 10A extensions as well, and thats actually legal :super: :super: :super: the insulation wont differ, both will be rated to .6Kv. but yes the better cables will be at least 1.0mm^2 csa and even better 1.5mm^2 csa.

but yes having load across 2 circuits is the simplest method. just need to keep your loads segregated, Having circuits feeding into a device where the neutrals or earthing can become unified is a big no-no. RCD/ELCBs really dont play well in these scenarios.

 

[Adr_0]

Can you get a DPDT SSR, using one 10A plug?

Basically have the NO contacts on one pole to go to the mash temperature control, and while it's 'off' the NC contacts will be on the HLT element in series with the HLT controller.

If you can't find a DPDT, you can get one single pole NO (most common) SSR and a single pole NC, with the trigger parallelled from the mash temperature PID output.

This means that are not exceeding 10A,but getting utilisation of it when the mash isn't ramping.

You'd need a total of 3 x SSRs (2 x NO, 1 x NC) with the third one acting as a very fast, intelligent enabling switch when the mash temperature controller is not turning on the element.

 

[Camo6]

HAha, thats pretty much exactly what I did yesterday arvo.... Missus was in the lounge room and I just casually walked in, unplugged a lamp without saying anything and walked out..... "what are you doing?" i Heard her call out..."Nothing" I say as I start roaming around the house looking for powerpoints and flicking fuses

Turns out strangely enough, that the room closest to the back door and the deck area (which is where I want to brew), has two powerpoints on separate circuits only a meter apart on the same wall -BINGO!

I was also given a totally unorthodox bit of advice from an electrician who recommended that I buy a 15A extension lead (or two) and just file the earth pin down so it fits in a 10A socket, just for that extra bit of insulation and thicker wire guage

Bet you that 15A extension lead has the same diameter copper as a 10A lead. Most likely 1.75mm2 (flex copper has more strands and can therefore handle slightly more current due to an effect called electron fleecing whereby the electrons have a tendency to flow around the outside of a conductor). The only difference will be the earth pin. Filing it down haphazardly will likely result in less contact, ie more resistance, than just using a heavy duty extension lead with a 10A plug top. Mind you, a heavier duty insulation isn't going to help with current carrying capacity either. I'm starting to see what quokka was referring to.
Get your sparky to check the integrity of the wiring. Upgrade your circuit protection. Use two short, quality extension leads off two seperate circuits and don't draw more than 10A off each. Brew beer.

Fwiw my system utilises two 15A circuits into my controller. I used 2.5mm2 flex from the outlet to the controller and made sure the internals were rated to suit.

Homebrew starts getting expensive when you burn down your house.

 

[malt junkie]

True Cam, generally SWMBO only likes sleeping without a roof in summer, and more often than not in a National Park with a nice camp fire, not a house fire!

 

[Adr_0]

Can you get a DPDT SSR, using one 10A plug?

Basically have the NO contacts on one pole to go to the mash temperature control, and while it's 'off' the NC contacts will be on the HLT element in series with the HLT controller.

If you can't find a DPDT, you can get one single pole NO (most common) SSR and a single pole NC, with the trigger parallelled from the mash temperature PID output.

This means that are not exceeding 10A,but getting utilisation of it when the mash isn't ramping.

You'd need a total of 3 x SSRs (2 x NO, 1 x NC) with the third one acting as a very fast, intelligent enabling switch when the mash temperature controller is not turning on the element.

This is basically the wiring configuration:


When you get a signal from the mash PID, say 100% during a ramp, the "SSR-NC" will be triggered, open up and break the contact to the HLT while the mash element gets driven. But as the mash hits setpoint the output from the mash PID will drop to 0-20%.

If the HLT temperature is well below setpoint, it probably has 100% output on it the whole time. It's then waiting for the Mash PID via the SSR-NC to close when the mash element is off duty. So the HLT will just heat up as it can, during the mash rest points, and then maintain temperature once it's there - likely by the time you ramp the mash to mash out temps.

And for initial strike, turn your mash PID off so that the SSR-NC is closed and letting current get through to the HLT controller.

NC SSR - I'm sure ebay has them too:
http://au.element14.com/crydom/d2450b/ssr-panel-mount-280vac-32vdc-50a/dp/1882685

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I am SOOOOOO staying out of this thread

All I can say is...um....yeah...

 

[damoninja]

My gas burner runs fine on 10A

 

[Adr_0]

....

I was also given a totally unorthodox bit of advice from an electrician who recommended that I buy a 15A extension lead (or two) and just file the earth pin down so it fits in a 10A socket, just for that extra bit of insulation and thicker wire guage

You need to thank this person for their time and say a very direct and final "Goodbye"

alternatively you can buy higher rated 10A extensions as well, and thats actually legal :super: :super: :super: the insulation wont differ, both will be rated to .6Kv. but yes the better cables will be at least 1.0mm^2 csa and even better 1.5mm^2 csa.

but yes having load across 2 circuits is the simplest method. just need to keep your loads segregated, Having circuits feeding into a device where the neutrals or earthing can become unified is a big no-no. RCD/ELCBs really dont play well in these scenarios.

Yes - and if they're going to the same control box they will probably have a common earth, creating a big long earth loop. This would probably trip your RCD as there will be a current imbalance at the RCD.

You need to get a competent electrician on board, get some CB's and check everything out for safety before creating a serious hazard.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Funny you never hear of butcher shops being robbed by knife wielding bandits .

Some butchers are knife wielding bandits when it comes to prices

 

[Bridges]

I know you are obviously a fair way through your build but have you considered grain father, Braumeister, Robobrew. All work fine from a 10A gpo.

 

[philistine]

I know you are obviously a fair way through your build but have you considered grain father, Braumeister, Robobrew. All work fine from a 10A gpo.

To be honest, ive never considered that kind of brewing and probably never will.
Its just not interactive enough for my liking.
Ive hung out with mates with 1v biab setups as wel and i have to be honest - i just find it boring.

I want to build (have already built) a brewery and then make beer with it.
Now i want to build - and understand - a relatively simple electrical system to run that brewery.

One day I'll probably teach myself how to code and make my own arduino or similar type automated addition to that system.

The challenge of taking on a subject i know absolutely nothing about (eg. Electronics) and asking dumb questions and finding out about all the things that i need to learn in order to achieve my goal appeals to me on so many levels.

Its like when I decided i want to work for myself. I taught myself about accounting and business management and just went and did it.
Ive been self employed for 5 years and im happy and more prosperous than ive ever been.

Same as when i decided i want to make my own bacon and salami. I knew nothing in the beginning. So i bought a welder, knowing nothing about metal work.
I taught myself how to weld, then i built myself a kickass smoker out of and olg LPG tank. Then i found a free range pig farmer, made friends with a butcher, built a smokehouse and a temp & humidity controlled curing chamber and now i butcher my own carcasses (pigs and lambs) and ive just cut a deal with a group of dudes that hunt wild deer in the high country to cure and smoke this year's catch.

It was never about taking the easy way or getting cheap salami - it was about learnig a completely new set of skills and meeting people who had those skills and learning feom them and living a particular lifestyle.
I struggle to sit still, i hate watching tv and i need projects to keep me sane.

If i just wanted to drink beer, id go and buy some.

PS search YouTube for "how to make a sandwich from scratch ". That guy is a deadset ******* legend

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think you should just run a dedicated 20A cct and be done with it.

 

[philistine]

I think you should just run a dedicated 20A cct and be done with it.

Thats my first preference, but Not an option unfortunately

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Why ?

 

[philistine]

Renting, old house, old wiring, powerboard made from asbestos, upgrade = $$$$$$$$$$

 

[Adr_0]

Renting, old house, old wiring, powerboard made from asbestos, upgrade = $$$$$$$$$$

Have you got RCD's and circuit breakers?

 

[philistine]

But I haven't given up.
Will definitely be asking the landlord's electrician if it can be done if/when they approve of an upgrade to the switchboard (replacing ceramic fuses with proper rcb's etc))