Vienna And Munich Malts?

[Gough]

Fellas,

I'm a bit confused about Vienna and Munich malted grains. Everything I have previously read or heard has led me to believe that you had to mash these grains to use them. Palmer for example says this categorically. This afternoon I went to my brew shop and spoke to the guy there who has been spot on in his advice up to this point and he said you definitely only had to steep them, not actually mash. Who should I believe?? I'm putting together an American Pale Ale recipe based on Extract and specialty 'steeping' grains and had gone in to sus which crystal malt to use. He seemed really insistent that instead of my planned 200g 60L crystal I should drop a little extract and steep 250g each of Vienna and Munich, with a little dark crystal for added colour. I don't really want to buy the Munich and Vienna, steep them, and find I've got a dodgy starchy mess. Whaddayareckon, should I just stick with what I thought to be true or is this bloke onto something?

Thanks in advance,

Shawn.

 

[jayse]

hmmm very strange these malts are not converted only malted and dried etc.so they need to be mashed for conversion to occur.

as far as i know they absolutely must be mashed.
this home brew store guy might be doing it that way steeping at 65-70c or whatever for half an hour so the malt is actually mashing.
these malts do contain enough enzymmes to mash on there own.ie you don't need to mash with pale malt.

so i pressume when he steeps the munich malt unknown to him the starch is converting in this time while he thinks all that is happening is he's extracting the sugar.
basically he is mashing not steeping.(but he does'nt know that it seems)
this would only work if he's steeping between 60-70c.
does this make sense.

 

[GSRman]

I have steeped munich malt before for irish ales... it was in the recipe's i read..

i think it might be in there for flavour and mouthfeel... not sugars....

 

[jayse]

these malts have almost the same extract potential has pale malts.
ie arorund 81% of 386.

pale malt may be up to 82.5%

so calculate them as adding as much to the o.g as pretty much any malt.
they can be used up to 70% of the bill in bocks and other german style beers and up to 25% in ales.


munich malt is i think one of the tastiest of all malts.its a very good way to get extra malt flavour.grumpies advertise munich malt as gods gift to brewing.

your right gsrman many recipes use the munich malt for the added malt complexity but it still does had the same amount of sugars as other malts.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Gough, I have been brewing with Munich for well over a year now and can tell you that you MUST mash this malt as well as Vienna for conversion to occur and it should be for 90 minutes @ 65C. I use a minimum of 50% Munich in all my Altbiers and it adds a magnificent malty complexity and mouthfeel. I have used both Weyermann Munich (light and dark) and Joe White Munich, both give very good results.

TDA

 

[Gough]

Thanks fellas. I had just assumed they required mashing and by the sounds of it they do. You might be right Jayse when you say he could be 'accidentally' mashing the grains. He does seem to know his stuff this bloke, and I've tasted a wide range of his beers which is always the ultimate test. Maybe he just had a brain explosion on this one. I might try a VERY basic partial mash for this brew and see how I go. No doubt won't get great efficiency etc. but have to start somewhere!

Thanks again,

Shawn.

 

[PostModern]

He might be thinking that mashing necessarily involves the use of a mash tun. "Steeping" for the right time at the right temp is mashing. Sparging is what generally separates the two, or am I way off track?

 

[deebee]

I believe you are on track. In fact I saw a simple part mash recipe that started out with kilo or two of pale malt in a big pot of cold water. Bring it to the boil very slowly over a very low heat for an hour or so, but don't let it boil. Somehow remove the grains and then add extract. Boil etc...