Vale IPA BIAB 3.5lt small batch advice

[mtodd]

Its been quite some time since we brewed but we were keen to try a very small batch(3.5lt) with the BIAB method. We live in an apartment and are happy to brew often as we find the process enjoyable. We got a Vale IPA recipe from a local brewers shop which included:

.53kg JWM Traditional Ale Malt
.08kg JWM Wheat Malt
.04kg JWM Caramalt
.02kg Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt

Citra, Glaaxy and Nelson Sauvin hops added at 15min and at end of boil

WYeast 1272 American Ale II

As per the recipe we started with a pre-boil Wort size of 4.12lt. After a 60min mash the pre-boil gravity was 1030 but the recipe stated 1039. This is an area where we still have a lot to learn as we're not comfortable trying to adjust the gravity yet.

After a 60min rolling boil with glass lid on we chilled the wort to 20deg in a sink of ice water which happened fairly quickly (5min).

We were not sure of the post boil quantity and for the next brew we will mark levels on the glass fermenter to help with this. However, I think we ended up with a bit less than 3.5lt. Also, wanting to keep the hops in the wort for as long as possible, the hop bag was removed after the wort was chilled. We lost a fair bit of wort to the hop bag which was removed just before transferring the wort to the fermenter. We didn't want to squeeze the hop bag for fear of introducing bacteria to the wort.

As you can see in the attached photos we are also not sure about the colour.

Any suggestions and advice will be most welcome as we are hoping to try again with improvements in the next week or so.

Cheers
Matt and Tati

 

[luggy]

Might want to leave the lid off during the boil next time, also a whole smack pack of yeast is probably an over pitch.

 

[mtodd]

Might want to leave the lid off during the boil next time, also a whole smack pack of yeast is probably an over pitch.

Thanks for the advice luggy. Much appreciated.

 

[Matplat]

Yeah the colour is possibly due to yeast overpitch i.e. the colour you see is due to so much yeast in suspension.

And as above, boiling with the lid on was a mistake. A compound called Di-methyl Sulphate forms during the boil, and usually evaporates when the lid is off however it will have condensed on the lid and fallen back in. If the beer tastes like butterscotch you know why!

Squeezing the hop bag won't introduce bacteria as it has just been boiled for an hour. Also, infections from hops is never an issue anyway due to their anti-bacterial properties. Do a search on dry-hopping....

Cheers, Matt

 

[mtodd]

Yeah the colour is possibly due to yeast overpitch i.e. the colour you see is due to so much yeast in suspension.

And as above, boiling with the lid on was a mistake. A compound called Di-methyl Sulphate forms during the boil, and usually evaporates when the lid is off however it will have condensed on the lid and fallen back in. If the beer tastes like butterscotch you know why!

Squeezing the hop bag won't introduce bacteria as it has just been boiled for an hour. Also, infections from hops is never an issue anyway due to their anti-bacterial properties. Do a search on dry-hopping....

Cheers, Matt

Thanks heaps Matt,

I was more worried about infecting the wort with whatever i squeezed the hop bag with i.e. my hand. Next time i'll sanitise some tongs and do it that way.

I think we'll have another go tomorrow. Does anyone have any advice regarding type and quantity of yeast for the next attempt?

Cheers,
Matt and Tati

 

[Matplat]

Look up mrmalty.com there is a yeast pitching rate calculator on there. The type depends on what you are brewing and personal preference.

 

[mtodd]

Well we had another go last night and we increased the recipe to end up with a wort size of 4lt. We conducted starch tests with iodine this time which showed the the conversion was very effective. We also ended up with a very accurate pre-boil gravity this time which was very pleasing. Oh and the colour is also much better this time around as you can see in the photo. The new brew is on the right. Yeah both recipes are the same



Unfortunately, after everything going so well we lost a lot of wort through the boil. It was a light rolling boil but we still ended up with only 2lt of wort instead of 4. In a bit of a panic, we topped it up to 4 litres with commercially packaged spring water as i had done in the past with partial mash and extract brews. We added 3.5g of dry Safale US-05 and it seems to be going ok so far.

We would really welcome some suggestions/recommendations for overcoming our loss of wort during the boil or re-adjusting our recipe to account for the loss. The figures for the current recipe are:

Batch Size: 4lt
Total Grain: 0.77kg
Anticipated OG: 1.045
Anticipated EBC: 11.6
Anticipated IBU: 41.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75%
Wort Boil Time: 60min

Evaporation Rate: 15% per hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 4.71lt
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.039 SG/9.66 Plato

I gather from these figures that an evaporation rate of 15% per hour is not relevant for my set up as we have experienced an evaporation rate of closer to 40%

We would really welcome some suggestions/recommendations. Cheers, Matt and Tati.

 

[motman]

I'd just put in the evaporation rate and possibly a top up in the software and brew accordingly. I'd guess it's so outrageously high because the volume is small in comparison to surface area. You shouldn't have any diacetyl!

 

[Barge]

Just to clarify. There is a compound found in malt called s-methyl methionine. When smm is heated, it turns into dimethyl sulphide. When you boil wort the DMS is evaporated. By placing the lid on you have captured it as it as condensed back into the wort.

DMS tastes like cooked corn. In any detectable amount it is rank. This is very different from diacetyl, which is produced by yeast and does indeed taste like butterscotch. In certain styles and in certain amounts it can be pleasant.

 

[Rocker1986]

DMS doesn't cause the beer to taste like butterscotch, it's more like.... well Barge beat me to it. :lol:

One way to fix the small wort volume issue is to simply make it bigger initially to compensate for it. If you're losing 2.7 litres of wort over an hour long boil, you'll have to get the pre-boil volume up to about 6.2 litres to end up with 3.5 litres batch size.

 

[idzy]

We would really welcome some suggestions/recommendations for overcoming our loss of wort during the boil or re-adjusting our recipe to account for the loss.

There is nothing wrong with topping up with water, lots of recipes call for this, particularly on a 90/120 minute boil. As mentioned the other option is to have a larger pre-boil volume, but this may not be possible with the size of your vessel.

The other option is to have a less aggressive boil, by lowering your heat down so it is still rolling boil, but not really going crazy...

When the boiling wort experiences evaporation, you aren't losing wort as such, just concentrating the wort by boiling off stream (water) and leaving the sugars in the kettle, so adding water back will bring it back to the desired volume.

 

[motman]

Just to clarify. There is a compound found in malt called s-methyl methionine. When smm is heated, it turns into dimethyl sulphide. When you boil wort the DMS is evaporated. By placing the lid on you have captured it as it as condensed back into the wort.

DMS tastes like cooked corn. In any detectable amount it is rank. This is very different from diacetyl, which is produced by yeast and does indeed taste like butterscotch. In certain styles and in certain amounts it can be pleasant.

Thanks, that's the d-word I meant!

 

[Blind Dog]

DMS tastes like cooked corn. In any detectable amount it is rank. This is very different from diacetyl, which is produced by yeast and does indeed taste like butterscotch. In certain styles and in certain amounts it can be pleasant.

Disagree with the whole cooked corn analogy (but not the rest) which is a fairly common descriptor, but IMO far too benign. Think more rotting broccoli or Beelzebub's farts