Using water from gas hot water system for water

[trustyrusty]

Hi Guys

Question. I had an issue with the gas hot water system the other day and emailed the manufacturer about it. They mentioned something about the water needing to get over 60 deg to kill micro organism..etc.

Got me thinking, the hot water gas (not electric) looks like a boiler, runs into the sink in copper pipes (sometimes used in brewing too cool wort, as in place inside the wort with cold water running through...so copper not an issue?)

I thought that using hot water might a good way to sterilize your water for wort and stock water - cooled as needed. In other post I mentioned using a sterilizer and it was mentioned that if you rinse your fermentor with water after cleaning / sanitizing the water should be of the cleanest quality etc. I think our water is ok but if you were worried about not using a no-rinse sanitizer then surely your water for a batch is the same issue. Has anyone tried this, and do you sterilize water for brewing..?

I am refer to gas hot water, I think with electric heaters could be different...
I also mean storing hot water for later use when cool for beer making... not hot enough for the wort production boil but you could start off with it and heat up as needed..

The reason I ask is I heard for what ever reason you should not drink water from a hot water system...sounds like rubbish to me ..but maybe I have missed something here...
Thanks

 

[razz]

Not drinking water from the hot tap may well be an old wives tale rusty. HWS's now have to have water stored above 60 degrees to defend against the bacteria that causes legionnaire's.

 

[tugger]

In nsw it can't come out the tap hotter than 50.

 

[Dae Tripper]

That is the job of the tempering valve

 

[indica86]

HWS's now have to have water stored above 60 degrees to defend against the bacteria that causes legionnaire's.

Edit - yes, apparently that is the case.

 

[vykuza]

Not drinking water from the hot tap may well be an old wives tale rusty. HWS's now have to have water stored above 60 degrees to defend against the bacteria that causes legionnaire's.

My old man caught legionaires last year, lucky to have survived!

 

[vykuza]

In nsw it can't come out the tap hotter than 50.

Mine comes out at 45-47, but is limited to 50.

it's "on demand" though, gas, so not storing the liquor.

 

[trustyrusty]

Hi Guys, thanks - I am really concerned about temp.....my only question really if it is ok to use to brew with...ie consume...

Surely water that has got to 65 deg or so in the tank...will have less chance of diseases or impurities than out of the cold tap..therefore more chance of a better beer?
If the water has been in the tank all day at a high temp it is like it has been sanitized or most of the impurities removed?

If you want to see how hot it gets from the tank ..run some off the pressure release valve into a glass....mine got to about 65 or even a bit higher...



Cheers

 

[user 36151]

I use hot water for brewing from a 50L electric storage heater its also used for cleaning ect so the water is turned over weekly normally ran cold with cleaning prior to brewing then allowed to heat back up .thermostat set about 75c. with stat cycled off at 75 i get about 70L into biab kettle at about 50c and thats all from the hot tap filtered through a under sink type drinking water filter. In the beginning i filled a couple of pints one hot and cold both un filtered put gladwrap on them and chilled and sampled could not taste a difference in them.It saves a heap of time and gas if you using it.
No rheem taste as mr bullpit would say

 

[Rodolphe01]

Some people don't like using storage hot water system water for brewing (or drinking) because of the sacrificial anode possibly putting zinc in the water (or something). Probably doesn't apply to the instant gas hot water systems though.

The water while hot might be 'safer' microbiologically, but might be less 'safe' once cooled because of the effect the heating may have on residual chlorine. Also, the additional handling/cooling/storage of the water might simply re-contaminate it (if it was even contaminated in the first place). The hot water system won't remove any impurities either. However, reticulated water in Australia is very safe, so I wouldn't be concerned about this for brewing with it. Getting into water chemistry and removing chlorine etc when you get to the pointy end of refining your brewing, sure - but then you would be looking at RO water anyway.

Straight tap water is fine for brewing, thousands of kit brewers use it routinely without a thought.

For what it's worth I use hot water system water simply to save on heating time in the urn.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I use boiling water from my kettle to rinse

 

[spog]

Hi Guys, thanks - I am really concerned about temp.....my only question really if it is ok to use to brew with...ie consume...

Surely water that has got to 65 deg or so in the tank...will have less chance of diseases or impurities than out of the cold tap..therefore more chance of a better beer?
If the water has been in the tank all day at a high temp it is like it has been sanitized or most of the impurities removed?

-
To get rid of the nasties water needs to be boiled for 15 mins which will kill and drive the nasties off via the boil/vapour.
A HWS is a sealed unit and does not boil so the impurities etc will remain inside,but as for catching something from your hot water service the chances are very very slim.
If it were an " oh no don't do it " issue we would all be crook,seeing as we wash dishes and ourselves in hot water from a hot water service.
It's no different than running water from a tank or tap into a pot and then heating to 65 degrees.

 

[trustyrusty]

Hi Guys - thanks

All I am asking is if it would be ok to use hot water from the HWS water - that is cooled for the water in your brew. It has to be better than the cold water in terms of less nasties.
I am not asking to use if I wanted to purify water I would use - I would boil to make sure - but out of the hot water it would have a chance to be cleaner than cold.
And if you were going to boil water this would be a easier and time saving start...

I am sure it is fine to use... I think that is an old wives tale about drink hot water out the system. You boil water tea in a kettle that has elements in it?

I will give it a try...

cheers

 

[glenwal]

All I am asking is if it would be ok to use hot water from the HWS water - that is cooled for the water in your brew.

Put water from your hot tap in a mug, let it cool and then drink it. If it tastes OK then you should be good. If it has any off tastes to it then don't use it as the of flavors may effect the resulting beer.

 

[klangers]

Legionnaires is generally airborne on tiny particles of water which enter your lungs. There is very little, or no, risk of contracting Legionnaires from tap water (assuming you're talking municipal treated water rather than local dam or rain water).

What brewing method do you use? You need not worry if you're boiling your wort anyway before cooling to ferment.

 

[spog]

Hi Guys - thanks

All I am asking is if it would be ok to use hot water from the HWS water - that is cooled for the water in your brew. It has to be better than the cold water in terms of less nasties.
I am not asking to use if I wanted to purify water I would use - I would boil to make sure - but out of the hot water it would have a chance to be cleaner than cold.
And if you were going to boil water this would be a easier and time saving start...

I am sure it is fine to use... I think that is an old wives tale about drink hot water out the system. You boil water tea in a kettle that has elements in it?

I will give it a try...

cheers

Taking water from a HWS and then letting it cool is a waste of time the end result is the same .
Taking water from a HWS that is already heated and then commencing a boil will result in less time / energy to achieve a boil .
Dont worry about the old wives tales as they are simply that.

 

[motman]

I read something about older copper pipes being braised with lead, which leaches more at higher temps. May be worth checking out.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The old tale of not drinking from the hot tap goes back to the days of lead pipes, which was thought to be causing lead poisoning, it was phased out donkey's years ago.

 

[kunfaced]

HWS's have a scale buildup happen in them. Mostly calcium and magnesium build up in the HWS over time. I know it causes problems internally with the elements but I don't know how much of it would be picked up and delivered to the tap.

 

[spog]

I would say a lot of it as a HWS is a sealed unit , the only time anythings escapes is when either the pressure relief valve kicks in or the hot water tap is opened.

 

[hellbent]

what about water from a mains gas hot water service, that ok?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yes

 

[trustyrusty]

I actually tried 3 types of water

• Tap
• Gas Hot water System
• Boiled water

All cooled to room temp..
I could not tell the difference and I am not dead...(if anything the boiled water might have been a slight difference but I had to try 5 or 6 times - nothing noticeable)
I reckon it is fine from gas hot water and to me must have a better chance of making better beer as at some stage of its life it was over 60 deg and less chance of any nasties.. I will try cooled hot water next time and see if it makes a difference.
cheers

 

[bear09]

After years of use a hot water service will build up a deposit of gunk on the bottom - this does however take years to occur. The gunk is settled though and comes into your hot water in absolute tiny amounts - not dangerous at all. I know this because recently I had my gas HWS replaced with a bigger one and when the plumber removed the old one and shook it about to move it the water the drooled out the bottom looked like dam water. He said to me "thats why they tell you not to drink out of your HWS but this thing is 15 years old". He replaced it with an AquaMax 385 and fk me this thing is good (free plug for them - no aff ).

If your HWS is under 10 years old and has a stainless tank I dont think you would have any problems at all.

Something else I love doing... On brew eve I ramp my HWS to full temp. Next morning on brew day (before I start to fill HLT) I go turn it back down. Then - I run my hot tap the water comes out at 60... literally by the time the HLT is full I have to wait another 2 mins before I am at 68 and ready to dough in. Because ive drawn some 60L of pure hot water out of the tank by the time it fires and comes back to temp the mrs and kids are waking up inside hopping in showers to start their days and they are none the wiser (or none the scolded however you want to look at it :lol

So for me a stainless gas fired reservoir HWS is great for brewing. My beers are clean and infection free and taste pretty damn good too.

 

[wombil]

I use it all the time.
Bucket it into a boiler and heat up more for mashing.
Can't see any difference in Gas or electric.
Saves time heating .
No problems at all.

 

[Vini2ton]

Brewing was used by naval explorers to make safe drinkable beverages. I stand by beer. Maybe the odd rum or 2. I bet their barrels of water got a bit stinky. So I wouldn't be scared of water from a modern (perhaps 50 year old) gas hot water service unless you haven't showered for a while. 3 cheers for beer! Moot point as you're going to boil it anyway aren't you?

 

[Hip Hop Hooray]

Does anyone know if the water that comes out of the pressure relief valve is any different to the water that comes out of the system. And if so how it's different?

Where I brew is right next to my HWS and I can access water straight from the valve, which would save me having to do any plumbing

At this stage I only plan to use the hot water for cleaning. But down the track when I move to AG it would make life a lot easier if I had hot water straight from the tank.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Same tank, same water.

 

[BJB]

Should be filtered and boiled to be safe.

 

[user 36151]

Does anyone know if the water that comes out of the pressure relief valve is any different to the water that comes out of the system. And if so how it's different?

Where I brew is right next to my HWS and I can access water straight from the valve, which would save me having to do any plumbing

At this stage I only plan to use the hot water for cleaning. But down the track when I move to AG it would make life a lot easier if I had hot water straight from the tank.

Depending on if you have a thermal mixing valve on your supply from the tank it may be hotter straight from the relieve valve that would be the only difference