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Using Bleach To Sainitise

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m3taL

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Iv looked around the forum and cant really find any information on this....

Iv spoken to another brewer who has used bleach for years to sanitise his equipment & bottles etc...


Im wondering if anyone else does this?? and what kind of Dilution and contact times etc.....

Cheers

Jamey
 

wbosher

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I used bleach for my first couple of brews, PITA. Everyone around here told me to ditch the bleach and get starsan, I resisted for a while because it looked expensive, but it lasts forever.

Got some starsan and I'll never go back to bleach.
 

Bribie G

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Bleach is very cheap but is "sticky" and takes several rinses to wash it off. PITA as mentioned above.
 

QldKev

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ditch the bleach and get starsan

sm_whip.gif
 

warra48

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Bleach will effectively kill nasties.
But then you need to rinse it umpteen times to get rid of the bleach.
Result is your equipment is no more sanitary than your rinse water.

Better just to clean your equipment, and use StarSan to sanitise.
 

L_Power

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Have you tried hydrogen peroxide?
 

Bribie G

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Have you tried hydrogen peroxide?
Apart from being murderously expensive, Hydrogen Peroxide works by releasing an oxygen atom that oxidises and zaps bugs and other organic stuff. Sodium Percarbonate works in exactly the same way and releases and oxygen atom, some people even call it "Solid Peroxide". Advantage is that Sodium Percarbonate is readily available as the active ingredient in Napisan and its clones.

It's a great cleaner and de-gunker but not really a sanitiser. I use Perc first then Starsan for nearly all my cleaning and sanitising . Give em the quick one-two :icon_cheers:
 

DU99

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Sodium metasilicate added to Sodium Perc makes a mean cleaning combination.then back up with starsan ..
 

carniebrew

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I was moaning to my local HBS the other day that they don't have Starsan, and he threw me a free bag of PMS (yeah i sniggered too). Potassium Metabisulfite, it seems it's used primarily in wine, and I mean "in" wine, to kill nasties within the fermenting must. However, apparently, it can also be used as a no rinse sanitiser, when mixed 10 grams to the litre. Which is not bad given a 250 gram bag cost under $5 if you're paying for it.

I can't see anyone switching from Starsan, it's the duck's nuts when it comes to no-rinse sanitising. But maybe if you find yourself stuck for Starsan one day and can't get any quickly, it could be a backup choice if you have a wine making store nearby.

I can't find it mentioned much at all on this site, although there are a few mentions of Sodium Metabisulfite around. I hadn't bothered starting a thread 'coz I figured there would be a lot of "why bother, just use starsan" replies, which is fair enough given how well suited Starsan is to the job, and how long a bottle of the stuff lasts.
 

m3taL

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At the monment im using a No Rinse from G&G "Defender" Low Foam Acid Sanitizer 502 g/L Phosphoric Acid & 96 g/l Alkylaryl Sulphonic Acid


This kind of product is similar to star san??
 

JDW81

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At the monment im using a No Rinse from G&G "Defender" Low Foam Acid Sanitizer 502 g/L Phosphoric Acid & 96 g/l Alkylaryl Sulphonic Acid


This kind of product is similar to star san??
Same principle, but not sure if it is the same active ingredient. I use defender as it was what I could get at the time (they were out of starsan) and have no issues with it what so ever.

To the OP:

Don't try and cheap out on sanitation. People recommend products like starsan because they work and are safe. You'll soon save the money by avoiding infections or batches which taste of bleach or other harsh chemical cleaner.
 

m3taL

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To the OP:

Don't try and cheap out on sanitation. People recommend products like starsan because they work and are safe. You'll soon save the money by avoiding infections or batches which taste of bleach or other harsh chemical cleaner.

Main reason for Concern was that iv got some old school brewing mates who say "Ahh i wouldnt touch that stuff" "I only use Boiling water & Bleach" etc... i'm just finding the GC of the members here.

The defender seems good i was just wondering how bleach went as im about out of Defender, Might buy some star san this route and give that a go.
 

Markbeer

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I use bleach as a soak after each fermentation. It cleans the fermenter very well.

Bleach rinses well with boiling water out of the kettle.

Starsan is very convenient and I use it for everything else, although if the surface isn't clean it is ineffective.

Starsan is more effective with bacteria than wild yeasts.
 

JDW81

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Starsan is very convenient and I use it for everything else, although if the surface isn't clean it is ineffective.
That is because starsan is a sanitising agent, not a cleaning agent. It is important to remember than clean and sanitary are not the same thing. Clean first, then sanitise.
 

Screwtop

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Same ol, same ol,

All been said before....................however:

200ml Bleach and 200 ml Vinegar in 5L water = Disinfectant, to Disinfect brewing equipment, hot rinse = neutralisation and disinfected surfaces.


Starsan, Iodophor, Phosphoric Acid Solutions = Sanitiser, use to Sanitise brewing equipment, no need to rinse when mixed at no-rinse concentrations.


If you have had, or suspect an infection has contaminated equipment then DISINFECT after use. Then SANITISE before next use.

My regime is to take the safest path, Disinfect then Sanitise before every brew. Recently a fridgeborn infection had been contaminating my open fermentations in the fermentation fridge. Fixed this by DISINFECTING all fermenting fridge inside surfaces.
 

KingKong

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My batches so far all use Palmer's suggested no rinse rate of 4ml per litre of cold water for sanitation. In my fermentor I soak everything that will fit in for about 30 minutes before I rinse it with a jug of boiling water.

When bottling however it isn't practical to rinse every bottle with boiled water and it defeats the purpose if I rinse with tap water, so I just let the bottles sit for 30 minutes on a sanitised bottle tree before bottling, they are dry or very close to dry when I bottle.

I have never had an infection <_< touch wood. And I have never tasted an off flavor ( other then early days when I fermented at rookie uncontrolled temps but I now know this had nothing to do with bleach).

I'm not saying this is best practice and maybe a more refined palate would pick up on some thing, maybe also not. But in my limited experience it has never failed me and I reckon I would recognise a bleachy taste..

Dunno if that helps. My 2c
 

piraterum

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So the short answer is don't waste your time with bleach!

Get a no rinse sanitiser as suggested. It's one of the best ways to improve your sanitation and once you do you'll never look back.
 

Screwtop

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So the short answer is don't waste your time with bleach!

Get a no rinse sanitiser as suggested. It's one of the best ways to improve your sanitation and once you do you'll never look back.

NO! They both have their place in the bewery!
 
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