Using Bleach To Sainitise

[m3taL]

Iv looked around the forum and cant really find any information on this....

Iv spoken to another brewer who has used bleach for years to sanitise his equipment & bottles etc...


Im wondering if anyone else does this?? and what kind of Dilution and contact times etc.....

Cheers

Jamey

 

[Rodolphe01]

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=18

 

[m3taL]

Cheerz

 

[wbosher]

I used bleach for my first couple of brews, PITA. Everyone around here told me to ditch the bleach and get starsan, I resisted for a while because it looked expensive, but it lasts forever.

Got some starsan and I'll never go back to bleach.

 

[Bribie G]

Bleach is very cheap but is "sticky" and takes several rinses to wash it off. PITA as mentioned above.

 

[QldKev]

ditch the bleach and get starsan

 

[warra48]

Bleach will effectively kill nasties.
But then you need to rinse it umpteen times to get rid of the bleach.
Result is your equipment is no more sanitary than your rinse water.

Better just to clean your equipment, and use StarSan to sanitise.

 

[L_Power]

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide?

 

[Bribie G]

Have you tried hydrogen peroxide?

Apart from being murderously expensive, Hydrogen Peroxide works by releasing an oxygen atom that oxidises and zaps bugs and other organic stuff. Sodium Percarbonate works in exactly the same way and releases and oxygen atom, some people even call it "Solid Peroxide". Advantage is that Sodium Percarbonate is readily available as the active ingredient in Napisan and its clones.

It's a great cleaner and de-gunker but not really a sanitiser. I use Perc first then Starsan for nearly all my cleaning and sanitising . Give em the quick one-two :icon_cheers:

 

[DU99]

Sodium metasilicate added to Sodium Perc makes a mean cleaning combination.then back up with starsan ..

 

[carniebrew]

I was moaning to my local HBS the other day that they don't have Starsan, and he threw me a free bag of PMS (yeah i sniggered too). Potassium Metabisulfite, it seems it's used primarily in wine, and I mean "in" wine, to kill nasties within the fermenting must. However, apparently, it can also be used as a no rinse sanitiser, when mixed 10 grams to the litre. Which is not bad given a 250 gram bag cost under $5 if you're paying for it.

I can't see anyone switching from Starsan, it's the duck's nuts when it comes to no-rinse sanitising. But maybe if you find yourself stuck for Starsan one day and can't get any quickly, it could be a backup choice if you have a wine making store nearby.

I can't find it mentioned much at all on this site, although there are a few mentions of Sodium Metabisulfite around. I hadn't bothered starting a thread 'coz I figured there would be a lot of "why bother, just use starsan" replies, which is fair enough given how well suited Starsan is to the job, and how long a bottle of the stuff lasts.

 

[m3taL]

At the monment im using a No Rinse from G&G "Defender" Low Foam Acid Sanitizer 502 g/L Phosphoric Acid & 96 g/l Alkylaryl Sulphonic Acid


This kind of product is similar to star san??

 

[JDW81]

At the monment im using a No Rinse from G&G "Defender" Low Foam Acid Sanitizer 502 g/L Phosphoric Acid & 96 g/l Alkylaryl Sulphonic Acid


This kind of product is similar to star san??

Same principle, but not sure if it is the same active ingredient. I use defender as it was what I could get at the time (they were out of starsan) and have no issues with it what so ever.

To the OP:

Don't try and cheap out on sanitation. People recommend products like starsan because they work and are safe. You'll soon save the money by avoiding infections or batches which taste of bleach or other harsh chemical cleaner.

 

[m3taL]

To the OP:

Don't try and cheap out on sanitation. People recommend products like starsan because they work and are safe. You'll soon save the money by avoiding infections or batches which taste of bleach or other harsh chemical cleaner.

Main reason for Concern was that iv got some old school brewing mates who say "Ahh i wouldnt touch that stuff" "I only use Boiling water & Bleach" etc... i'm just finding the GC of the members here.

The defender seems good i was just wondering how bleach went as im about out of Defender, Might buy some star san this route and give that a go.

 

[Markbeer]

I use bleach as a soak after each fermentation. It cleans the fermenter very well.

Bleach rinses well with boiling water out of the kettle.

Starsan is very convenient and I use it for everything else, although if the surface isn't clean it is ineffective.

Starsan is more effective with bacteria than wild yeasts.

 

[JDW81]

Starsan is very convenient and I use it for everything else, although if the surface isn't clean it is ineffective.

That is because starsan is a sanitising agent, not a cleaning agent. It is important to remember than clean and sanitary are not the same thing. Clean first, then sanitise.

 

[Screwtop]

Same ol, same ol,

All been said before....................however:

200ml Bleach and 200 ml Vinegar in 5L water = Disinfectant, to Disinfect brewing equipment, hot rinse = neutralisation and disinfected surfaces.


Starsan, Iodophor, Phosphoric Acid Solutions = Sanitiser, use to Sanitise brewing equipment, no need to rinse when mixed at no-rinse concentrations.


If you have had, or suspect an infection has contaminated equipment then DISINFECT after use. Then SANITISE before next use.

My regime is to take the safest path, Disinfect then Sanitise before every brew. Recently a fridgeborn infection had been contaminating my open fermentations in the fermentation fridge. Fixed this by DISINFECTING all fermenting fridge inside surfaces.

 

[KingKong]

My batches so far all use Palmer's suggested no rinse rate of 4ml per litre of cold water for sanitation. In my fermentor I soak everything that will fit in for about 30 minutes before I rinse it with a jug of boiling water.

When bottling however it isn't practical to rinse every bottle with boiled water and it defeats the purpose if I rinse with tap water, so I just let the bottles sit for 30 minutes on a sanitised bottle tree before bottling, they are dry or very close to dry when I bottle.

I have never had an infection <_< touch wood. And I have never tasted an off flavor ( other then early days when I fermented at rookie uncontrolled temps but I now know this had nothing to do with bleach).

I'm not saying this is best practice and maybe a more refined palate would pick up on some thing, maybe also not. But in my limited experience it has never failed me and I reckon I would recognise a bleachy taste..

Dunno if that helps. My 2c

 

[piraterum]

So the short answer is don't waste your time with bleach!

Get a no rinse sanitiser as suggested. It's one of the best ways to improve your sanitation and once you do you'll never look back.

 

[Screwtop]

So the short answer is don't waste your time with bleach!

Get a no rinse sanitiser as suggested. It's one of the best ways to improve your sanitation and once you do you'll never look back.

NO! They both have their place in the bewery!

 

[Cocko]

Same ol, same ol,

All been said before....................however:

200ml Bleach and 200 ml Vinegar in 5L water = Disinfectant, to Disinfect brewing equipment, hot rinse = neutralisation and disinfected surfaces.


Starsan, Iodophor, Phosphoric Acid Solutions = Sanitiser, use to Sanitise brewing equipment, no need to rinse when mixed at no-rinse concentrations.


If you have had, or suspect an infection has contaminated equipment then DISINFECT after use. Then SANITISE before next use.

My regime is to take the safest path, Disinfect then Sanitise before every brew. Recently a fridgeborn infection had been contaminating my open fermentations in the fermentation fridge. Fixed this by DISINFECTING all fermenting fridge inside surfaces.

 

[TidalPete]

Not that I post much these days but in all my (years of) kits & bits/partials brewing yonks ago all I did was rinse fermenter with boiling water before adding the boiled contents/liquid malt. Never had any infections whatsoever say what you like.
Since starting all-grain I have paid more attention to sanitation & after lots of hand-wringing about the dangers of bleach to the environment (and a couple of infections) have finally settled on advice from another thread as in my copy & paste below BUT am using & re-using in a 5-litre container until a refill is needed (Usually 5-6 months or so).

10ml bleach to 5 litres water. Then add 10ml white vinegar. Stir thoroughly. --- Save & reuse.
ALWAYS add the bleach to the COLD water NEVER WATER TO BLEACH.


After blasting out the fermenter with the hose thrice (cold water) I rinse with 2ml/litre phosphoric acid from a 2-litre sprayer.
Starsan to me seems a better alternative than Phos as it reputably lasts months (don't fear the foam ) as opposed to Phos which goes off after a week or two diluted in the sprayer.
The only reason I still use phos is because I've got 3.5 litres left from 5 litres from a bb many years ago. Some might remember that bb hey?
Am very happy sanitising this way but sure that other methods are equally effective or even better.

Just my 2-cents worth.

PS --- Seems I have missed the last few posts what with all my extensive editing.

 

[Econwatson]

Hi guys, what about sanitising bottles? I've just been putting a little bit of bleach in each bottle, filling it up with hot water, then letting them sit for a half hour and then rinsing them out.

Would starsan work for this? It's a little time consuming at the moment!

 

[mwd]

Bleach Vinegar combo at the correct dilution is a no rinse sanitiser even the Starsan founder recommends it.

15ml of bleach add to 10l water then add 15ml white vinegar easy as, never had a problem and cheap as chips.

Not sure if Starsan has become available it was hard to get recently.

Just make up 10litres in a bucket and rinse your bottles 5 at a time.

 

[woodwormm]

I use bleach as a cleaner and Starsan to sanitise.

recently i've been trying to embrace sodium perc as a cleaner... but the homebrand woolies nappy stuff i get seems to take heaps more rinsing than the bleach.. i'll be sticking to bleach...

 

[Screwtop]

The only reason I still use phos is because I've got 3.5 litres left from 5 litres from a bb many years ago. Some might remember that bb hey?

I Remember, early 2006 yes???

Still have about 1L left :lol:

Screwy

 

[TidalPete]

In my bottling years I would put the (rinsed) bottles in my laundry tub to soak in a cap-full of dishwashing powder (no PBW then), rinse with my bottle rinser (long gone) then bottle without any worries at all.
Now that I am more enlightned I soak my kegs in 100% sodium perc, rinse, then sanitise with Phos prior to kegging.

My post above will see you through your bottling process no worries at all. :icon_cheers:

PS --- I realise that my (copy & pasted) method was originally posted as a no-rinse sanitiser but have never tried it out as such. One of these days I'll bite the bullet & see but in the meantime I have had no infections after well over 20-odd brews & am as happy with my sanitation as I will ever be.

PPS ---- That WAS a great bb wasn't it Screwy old mate? Still got a litre hey? You're so wasteful! :lol: :beer:

 

[Truman42]

Listen to this podcast on sanitation, where the maker of Starsan talks about using bleach and vinegar just like Screwtop and others have said here.

Sanitation

The number one thing i did to make bottling easier and quicker was switch to starsan.

I make a litre or two up in a bucket, fill 6 or more bottles 1/4 full of starsan and shake each one with my thumb over the end and sit them down on the table. After a couple of minutes I pick up one pour the starsan into an empty bottle and place it on my bottle tree (An upside down bread rack with the slots cut out bigger) and repeat on another bottle.

By the time Ive done the next six the first one has had enough contact time and so on. I just let them drain on the bread crate upside down and if they still have foam inside from the starsan I just fill it with beer and cap it. The foam does not hurt at all and there is supposed to be nutrients or something in the foam that helps the yeast.

Starsan is magic. I also have a spray bottle made up of starsan for spraying bits and pieces such as the end of my hose before it goes into the fermenter and I spray a clean cloth and drape over the top while Im transfering to keep the bugs out.

 

[Cocko]

Not that I post much these days

WOW! To post or not to post..

 

[TidalPete]

WOW! To post or not to post..

You are one of the main reasons I don't post anymore so FOW **** off ******!
Got any complaints cockhead? I'll PM you my address. All you have to do is ask & turn up. :angry: :angry: Coward of the Internet!