Fro-Daddy
Well-Known Member
Any pics of the internals of the Ultra Flo? Be interesting to see if it is the same as the Ultra or Inter.
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Ultratap versus Intertap
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FarsideOfCrazy
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Nope it's not the same as the ultratap, I did find a pic that had a nylon seal instead of the orings. Otherwise it looks like the ultraflo and ultratap are a clone of the original ventmatic, which is a copy of the perlick? I think the perlick was the first to use the forward sealing method. I've been trying to get a time line on things but it's a bit tricky to find accurate info. It looks like brad designed the first ventmatic but ventmatic own the patents. Then law suits started. Haven't found out what the it come was, this happened back in 2004.
One thing I'd like to know is can that seal be replaced on the shuttle if it gets worn?
Met Brad down at KK in his pocket he had an old Ventmatic tap which he found here in Melbourne it had been in constant commercial use since 2003 he bought it back, he told me in 15 years the 'O' rings had never been changed. The Ultratap is very similar but a bigger shuttle again than the Ventmatic.I was pretty intrigued to find a 13 year old post with a very familiar looking design:
Ventmatic - Where To Get A Good Deal
Lotsa references to old mate 'Brad' as seen in the Keg-King video.
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
From KegKing's own website:
"From the inventor for the original Vent Matic (Intertap) range of tap products"
"From the inventor for the original Vent Matic (Intertap) range of tap products"
Actually, the interference with laminar flow is why a flow control tap will produce more foam at wide open than an ultratap or the unlicenced copy.
It is a legitimate term and theory in fluid dynamics (the science of liquid and gas flow.)
I know it's a legitimate term, I didn't say it wasn't, my point is that its use in describing a non flow-control tap is unnecessary and seems to exist only as marketing jargon. If by "unlicensed copy" you mean an Intertap then I'm not sure what you mean there either, it pours equally well (since laminar flow is a fairly standard feature of a decent tap), and again it's venturing into off-topic territory about the patent debate - which again, I'm sure, if KegKing believed there was such a claim they would make it themselves.
I don't have a side by side test but a one after the other.
I swapped out my intertap for an ultratap partly for curiosity but also because my intertap was just the plated model and ultratap is stainless.
One thing I noticed straight away is the ultratap has a lot longer throw on the handle, not sure if that's good or not, and most times the spring will not push it off properly. And it doesn't feel overly smooth, it sort of scrapes open and close.
Pouring wise after 2 kegs I found the beer seems to come out a little faster from the ultratap at the same pouring pressure, maybe a bit too fast really. I will probably put a longer beer line on and see what happens.
I swapped out my intertap for an ultratap partly for curiosity but also because my intertap was just the plated model and ultratap is stainless.
One thing I noticed straight away is the ultratap has a lot longer throw on the handle, not sure if that's good or not, and most times the spring will not push it off properly. And it doesn't feel overly smooth, it sort of scrapes open and close.
Pouring wise after 2 kegs I found the beer seems to come out a little faster from the ultratap at the same pouring pressure, maybe a bit too fast really. I will probably put a longer beer line on and see what happens.
"Laminar flow" refers to an nice smooth transition. Aeronautic engineers argue to this day if turbulence decreases pressure, but any home brewer can try to pour the same beer through an intertap or Ultra-Flow then compare it to a flow control tap full open.
I suspect the reason they mention it is because it turns out that kegland and "intertap" are Chinese owned interests - and we all know how much the Chinese care about patents and international law...
I suspect the reason they mention it is because it turns out that kegland and "intertap" are Chinese owned interests - and we all know how much the Chinese care about patents and international law...
...so again about the patent theft. Keep it on topic, patent theft will be taken care of by Keg King, they're big boys. They know how to take care of themselves. Keep this thread on topic - if you actually have any proof of theft chuck it in a new thread if you have to.
Beir Hearder
Well-Known Member
Actually looked up the patent numbers and they are owned by Brad. Just google them and you will see for your self.
Beir Hearder
Well-Known Member
I was pretty intrigued to find a 13 year old post with a very familiar looking design:
Ventmatic - Where To Get A Good Deal
Lotsa references to old mate 'Brad' as seen in the Keg-King video.
Found this on Brulosophy website http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/01/vent-matic-ultra-flo-faucets-product-review/
Fro-Daddy
Well-Known Member
It's the same spring for Ultra and Inter right? That longer throw makes it sound like it should use it's own spring.
@Beir Hearder any progress with those pouring videos mate?
Uyllii
Well-Known Member
I own 3 Intertap taps, bought from Keg-King before the KK/KL split. There are two versions of the springs for the Intertaps, the big one works the other is too short/weak to properly close the tap.
Even with the big spring it kinda scraped when opening and closing like you say. I ended up not using the auto-close springs at all.
On the patent topic there is a thread either here or at homebrewtalk that covers the issue in some detail, there are also some additional details on Brulosophy. There were/are no patents in Australia covering perlic/VentMatic forward sealing taps, however the US importer of Intertap taps had to remove Intertaps from sale for a period of about 6 months because the VentMatic patent holder (Bradford Amidzich) claimed that the InterTap infringed on his patent. Intertap came to an agreement with VentMatic and is now registered under VentMatic patents US6457614, US6626420, US7077299.
It appears Ultratap is using the same patents in their design and has one of the patent numbers (7077299) stamped on the body.
My Intertap taps (no flow control) all have a non-laminated flow if I open the tap too fast, if I open it slowly it is perfectly laminated so it is not just an issue for flow control taps.
The non-laminated flow creates about twice as much head as I want. I don't have a photo of this but I may try to take one.
Beir Hearder
Well-Known Member
I don’t think that is quite right as Brad publically said to a bunch of brewers last week that he had patents back in 2003 covering Australia and that the only one in the world who could use his patents now were MCH Keg King and he came out here to clear all this up.
Uyllii
Well-Known Member
You are right, he had a number of Australian patents. They are all lapsed or ceased since before 2010.
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/...queryString=Bradford+Amidzich&resultsPerPage=
Don't get me wrong, I think the forward sealing tap design is a great design. I like all the taps using it (perlic, ventmatic, intertap, ultratap). If someone has legal rights to the design - good for them they should get royalties from the sale of the taps of all of these brands.
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
Awes
Awesome, you were there part of Melbourne Brewers? I wasn't able to make it down for the meeting that night, was hoping to stock up on a few items with the discount.
Awesome, you were there part of Melbourne Brewers? I wasn't able to make it down for the meeting that night, was hoping to stock up on a few items with the discount.
Beir Hearder
Well-Known Member
Not for that one. KK had several sessions for people with Brad and his explanation on getting beer from keg to glass are very enlightening.
Today my new Ultratap turned up and I fitted it to my keg fridge, alongside my Intertaps.
First thing I noticed is the long throw on the Ultratap as mentioned by pcmfisher and a scraping feeling as I pull the handle. Definitely some friction there, not too sure why, i'll pull it apart and take a look this arvo to see if something is in the way.
The other immediately noticeable difference is the veneer. The Ultratap in the photo is brand new out of the packet and yet I can see blemishes, appears to be from the machining process, it can't be cleaned off. The Intertap on the other hand has a mirror finish.
Both poured equally well, I'm grabbing more photos before posting about performance, so far for looks the Intertap comes out in front as far as looks and usage is concerned.
First thing I noticed is the long throw on the Ultratap as mentioned by pcmfisher and a scraping feeling as I pull the handle. Definitely some friction there, not too sure why, i'll pull it apart and take a look this arvo to see if something is in the way.
The other immediately noticeable difference is the veneer. The Ultratap in the photo is brand new out of the packet and yet I can see blemishes, appears to be from the machining process, it can't be cleaned off. The Intertap on the other hand has a mirror finish.
Both poured equally well, I'm grabbing more photos before posting about performance, so far for looks the Intertap comes out in front as far as looks and usage is concerned.
As assumed, very similar pouring performance.
It is worth noting that I poured a beer with the Ultratap prior to the one taken here and there was significantly more head, but I believe that's due to me pulling it a bit fast (story of my life). It appears the Intertap tolerates that a bit better but I haven't factored it in here, that wouldn't be fair.
It is worth noting that I poured a beer with the Ultratap prior to the one taken here and there was significantly more head, but I believe that's due to me pulling it a bit fast (story of my life). It appears the Intertap tolerates that a bit better but I haven't factored it in here, that wouldn't be fair.
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
Sorry to be niave but which is which? Left ultra tap? Right intertap?
Seriously following with interest. This is the first time it's been actually compared properly in my opinion.
Seriously following with interest. This is the first time it's been actually compared properly in my opinion.
That'd help, wouldn't it..
Left is Ultratap. Right is Intertap.
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
Cheers.
I don't know anything about taps but it does appear the ultra tap isn't the bees knees.
Do you have a horse in the race? Or a bias?
No bias nor affiliation, I've gotten involved in this thread in response to what appeared to be a significant bias and potential misrepresentation from a couple of posters in particular (on both sides of the fence - nobody is innocent here). I want to present a neutral view of the matter.
It would help if other Ultratap owners could post photos of their own taps in order to confirm the veneer issue isn't something I can be accused of fabricating.
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
Cheers. Appreciate the honesty. It has appeared there has been "passion" from both sides
I'm looking at getting taps soon so am looking very interested in this thread
Nullnvoid
Well-Known Member
*PATENTS ASIDE*
Basically Ventomatic = Intertap = UltraTap? Keg King had the Intertap until all that stuff went down. So what's the true difference between the Intertap and the UltraTap? Or are they the same thing essentially?
So if that's the case, and Keg King used to sell the Intertap, which was the Ventomatic, what's giving them a funny feeling in their pant's about the UltraTap? or is it all just a sales ploy?
Serious questions now the dickheadery seems to be passing in this thread.
Basically Ventomatic = Intertap = UltraTap? Keg King had the Intertap until all that stuff went down. So what's the true difference between the Intertap and the UltraTap? Or are they the same thing essentially?
So if that's the case, and Keg King used to sell the Intertap, which was the Ventomatic, what's giving them a funny feeling in their pant's about the UltraTap? or is it all just a sales ploy?
Serious questions now the dickheadery seems to be passing in this thread.
They are both made in the same factory, if you call into KK and check out the finishes they are exactly the same, go in after 2.00 pm when the bar opens and pour yourself a Pakistani Bitter. Better still get Yuri to pour it, put the handle of a screwdriver in your ear and the business end on the tap. You will hear the shuttle move as you would the Intertap, there is no way of avoiding the metal on metal movement. As for the length of the pull, does not make the slightest bit of difference I have a beer engine with a 1/4 pint pull and another with a 1/2 pint pull both beers come out exactly the same.
After the Royalty business is over, will there be any spare parts for the Intertap? That is the question that should be asked.
After the Royalty business is over, will there be any spare parts for the Intertap? That is the question that should be asked.
The question that should be asked WEAL is why you're still posting conjecture.
I don't care which factory they're made in, I care about what I and others receive. And there's a difference, in both look and feel.
I don't care which factory they're made in, I care about what I and others receive. And there's a difference, in both look and feel.
So you are worried about what you received, then send it back if you are not happy. I am very happy with mine, very rarely I will use them, I will only have them on my minikegs so not be getting much use but I do know that people not experienced pouring themselves a beer from a keg will not have a problem.
I'm not worried about what I received. I'm doing what the thread intends, which is comparing taps. Unless you have a comparison to make yourself, or an otherwise on topic contribution, I'm not sure what you're doing posting in this thread.
Read back a few posts you will see the comparison I will strip both down tomorrow so you can compare.
So be patient, don't get your knickers in a twist and we will do a complete comparison tomorrow.
So be patient, don't get your knickers in a twist and we will do a complete comparison tomorrow.
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