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warra48

I've drunk all my homebrew and I'm still worried.
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OK, I bottle my brews, so if you keg, move on, there's nothing to see here.

My experience with every liquid UK style yeast I've used is that the things slowly keep on fermenting in the bottle, even though my Apparent Attenuation is always at the top end of the range.
I'm sick and tired of opening up a bottle 2 to 3 months post bottling, only to find it produces more foam than beer.
Doesn't happen with the dried UK yeasts, nor with any of the dried or liquid USA or German style yeasts.

Only clue I might have is from a discussion with BribieG recently, when he opined it might be because the liquid UK yeasts are primarily bred for cask ales, and these are consumed with a week or two of casking, so it's not an issue.

Anyone else noticed this?
Is there a solution (yes, I know, drink the whole batch within 2 weeks, but that's not my consumption pattern)?
 

goomboogo

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Have you tried priming a little less to allow for the extra attenuation you seem to be getting in the bottle?
 

Rowy

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I'm not a racking fan Warra but maybe that would reduce the amount of yeast after primary............
 

warra48

I've drunk all my homebrew and I'm still worried.
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I prime at only about 1/2 the rate BeerSmith suggests for the style.

I never rack, but I would have thought 2 or 3 days Cold Crashing would achieve the same result?


I'm seriously thinking of using Danny's Favourite 50 for all my ales, whether USA or UK.
Obviously, German yeasts have been no problem.

I hardly ever brew Lagers or Belgians.
 

tiprya

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How long do you leave in primary/secondary?

I find with the liquid english's I've used they all ferment to the high end of the recommended attenuation range (1084, 1335, 1469). I leave in primary for 2 weeks and tend to ferment around 19 degrees and don't seem to have any problems in the bottle.

I have found with 1469, the 3 times I've used it, i've gotten 76-78% AA - which is far above specification (67-71).
 

Rowy

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How long do you leave in primary/secondary?

I find with the liquid english's I've used they all ferment to the high end of the recommended attenuation range (1084, 1335, 1469). I leave in primary for 2 weeks and tend to ferment around 19 degrees and don't seem to have any problems in the bottle.

I have found with 1469, the 3 times I've used it, i've gotten 76-78% AA - which is far above specification (67-71).
That 1469 is a beats! I love that yeast :beerbang:
 

felten

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I would try a fast ferment test on every batch you make. See if your yeast is really finishing as low as it can.

If the fast ferment test FG is lower than your actual batch then you know something is stopping it from finishing, maybe not enough oxygen/nutrients.

If it isn't lower, than maybe some other cause like infection, or nucleation points in the bottles?
 

jyo

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Warra, every time I use liquid English my bottles are overcarbed. That is after swirling, rousing, heating up to 22-23' for a few days, leaving on the yeast for 2 weeks. Doesn't seem to matter, they wake up in the bottle. My last Bitter beer I carbed at half the priming rate and I'm glad I did.

A solution would be good.
 

warra48

I've drunk all my homebrew and I'm still worried.
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How long do you leave in primary/secondary?
Never less than 2 weeks, usually more like 3 weeks.
TempMate is set at 19.5C for UK styles.

Fast ferment test is a good idea, but how the heck do I get it to drop more in primary?
 

felten

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Lack of oxygen can be a big factor for under attenuation, especially for the English yeasts. Maybe look at getting an oxygen aeration kit, or putting in an extra aeration step 12 hours after you pitch the yeast, like double dropping, or just manually shaking/stirring. (if you aren't doing that already)
 

mje1980

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Rouse rouse rouse to make sure its done. I always carb low for uk ales. Seems to work well for me. My uk ales always finish at around 1.010 or even less. I have to mash at 70c to get them to finish higher than 1.012, even with lots a crystal
 

hoppy2B

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Adding a second yeast with high attenuation properties just to finish off the last little bit before bottling may be an option.
 

mattbrewer

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Yes, rousing the yeast is the solution.


I was having the same problems with every UK liquid yeast I used. So I read the relevant parts of "Brew your own real ale at home" by Wheeler and Protz.

I now rouse the yeast by racking when the krausen falls, incorporating about half the good yeast into the new fermantation vessel. All my UK yeasts now ferment out completely with good results in the bottle.

Matt
 

RdeVjun

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Can relate Warra, had a similar experience myself. May help to also raise the ferment temperature as it approaches the expected FG, aka diacetyl rest, seemed to help mine, but it has been hard to isolate the exact cause as I also changed oxyenation to 0, 12 and 24h where possible and rouse and changed strains many times.
It is usually the most promising batch that's affected the worst! :angry:
 

manticle

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I find they often carb up a bit more in the bottle than I would like despite finishing 1010-1012 and carbing around 1-9 vol.

They are so good in so many other ways though that I'll stick with them.

I currently bottle condition too by the way.
 

black_labb

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I've noticed the same thing but I had never pinpointed it to being the english ale yeasts causing the issue, but now that I think about it that is spot on. I'll try reaerating the yeast as suggested above.

I love the english yeasts so I'll stick with them.
 

Diesel80

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Currently experienced this stalling with wy1318, was stuck at 1.042 to 1.016 in fermenter (nearly done but a little high for receipe). I suspect my starter was a little small.
Days 5-6 stuck.
Bumped up temp by 1 deg C and gave the brew a gentle swirl in fermenter. Only did two swirls.
2 days later down to 1.014. Just upped it another .5 degree this morning with another swirl.

Did not oxygenate the wort further but seems to be getting somewhere now.

Need to keg it Wednesday night but at least only 1 point off target FG now.
Should still get a 24-36 hour CC in. Dark ale shoud mask some floaties :p


Cheers,
D80
 

Tilt

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Currently experienced this stalling with wy1318, was stuck at 1.042 to 1.016 in fermenter (nearly done but a little high for receipe). I suspect my starter was a little small.
Days 5-6 stuck.
Bumped up temp by 1 deg C and gave the brew a gentle swirl in fermenter. Only did two swirls.
2 days later down to 1.014. Just upped it another .5 degree this morning with another swirl.

Did not oxygenate the wort further but seems to be getting somewhere now.

Need to keg it Wednesday night but at least only 1 point off target FG now.
Should still get a 24-36 hour CC in. Dark ale shoud mask some floaties :p


Cheers,
D80


Great discussion - Had the same with 1318 a while ago.
After working through the possible problems (starter size, ferment temps, mash temp, wort nutrients, aeration (pre pitch) etc) I didnt really get to the bottom of it.
I tried raising temps and rousing, but later on in the ferment it didn't seem to do very much (dropped another 2 points but stalled again)
In the end I came to the conclusion I'd just try to compensate by dropping the priming sugar amounts.

I haven't tried a second, or even thrid, round of aeration during the early ferment though.
What are the best ways to do this while keeping everything sanitary?
 

mje1980

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Nothing scientific, but I have noticed some uk strains to be temperamental. Seems to be the ones with lots of character. 1098 and also 1099 {whitbread number? } I find to be on the "cleaner" side (for a uk ale strain!}, but are very reliable, and consistent. Just got another vial of 023 burton ale, and while I love the yeast character, it can be a bit of a bitch to handle, in regards to user friendlyness. Still, I love the uk strains, so bloody good!!
 

mje1980

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Great discussion - Had the same with 1318 a while ago.
After working through the possible problems (starter size, ferment temps, mash temp, wort nutrients, aeration (pre pitch) etc) I didnt really get to the bottom of it.
I tried raising temps and rousing, but later on in the ferment it didn't seem to do very much (dropped another 2 points but stalled again)
In the end I came to the conclusion I'd just try to compensate by dropping the priming sugar amounts.

I haven't tried a second, or even thrid, round of aeration during the early ferment though.
What are the best ways to do this while keeping everything sanitary?
I just swirl the fermentor. As im a botulism infested no chiller, they get lots of aeration when they get tipped in the fermemtor. I only really have to rouse about a third of the uk ales I brew. Most ferment out fully without.
 
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