Two Different Yeasts, One Fermenter

[Nearly]

Being new to brewing I am still making the odd beginner mistake. While trying to re-hydrate the yeast for a Black Rock Lager I found no activity after half an hour so I pitched in a S-23 lager yeast. I didnt rehydrate or feed that yeast and it took about 24 hours before I saw any ativity. I think/hope that brew will be ok.

The same damn thing happened for another brew that I started a few days later. Since there was no activity in the rehyrdrated yeast I decided this time to pitch the rehydrated Black Rock yeast in anyway and wait an hour or so. Nothing happening that I could see so I threw in a Pacific Brewing ale yeast without rehydrating. It started up within an hour or so and is happily brewing now. The Black Rock yeast is normally very fast to start activity.

What happens when you have 2 different yeasts in one brew?

I suspect that the inactivity in the rehydrated yeast was the fact that there was low oxygen in the water since it had been boiled. I dont think it was too hot (about 25-30degrees is my guess).

 

[Gout]

I find the dry yeast (from what i remember been a while since i used them) that it takes a while to start through the airlock. Also when placed in say 35deg water, to hydrate the yeast it should turn the water to .... milky colour, then if you add some malt to the water it will start to foam after a while.


I'v never had a dud yeast's (dry) and by that i mean on top of the can.

give it time to wake up, it was onle hell of a sleep, its all hung over and not ready to start work untill it clears its head ... give it some time

 

[Nearly]

Thanks Ben. Um, er, I must admit that I am a bit confused though. I thought that one of the advantages of re-hydrating was that you 'prooved' the yeast. So that within the half hour you could see activity that prooved it was ok. I have only rehydrated 3 times and the first time within 15mins it was foaming even just in water (no malt). I understood that the dry yeast was coated in nutrient and that was enough to kick it off.

Having said that though... I believe that the dry yeasts are nearly always viable. The real reason to rehydrate from what I understand is that the number of surviving yeast cells is higher if rehydrated in water than in a high gravity sugar solution like wort.

I think I should do a couple of experiments with the 99 cent yeasts from Coles... just rehydrate them and watch what happens over time. (ie no time pressure on me from wanting to get it into the brew)

I still would be interested to hear from anyone who has put two yeasts in at once. Would one dominate or would you get a blend of flavours I wonder? Interesting recipe possibilities maybe?

Do you guys think that a kit on s23 would taste better than a kit on the supplied ale yeast?

 

[Gout]

your correct, but all i ment was they should work sometimes they just take a bit of time.

proving your yeast is good as per your reply
the test might help put you mind at ease. Storage of the kit yeast also might be a factor?

if the shops dont look after them? not sure how important it is in dry yeasts

best of luck

 

[deebee]

Nearly,

For what it's worth, here's my two bob: There's definitely nothing wrong with blending yeasts in theory. The trick would be experimenting until you got what you liked. Wyeast sell smack packs that are blends of different strains in liquid form. They've already done the experimenting for you.

My guess is that most dried yeast strains from the top of the tin have fairly similar characteristics and there would be not much difference between the blend and the individual yeasts on their own. I could be wrong there.

It would also seem common sense to suggest that the yeast you pitched first would be the strain to start multiplying first and would probably get the upper hand. Its characteristics would probably predominate.

I'm not sure but the first brew you mentioned probably came with an ale yeast. It didn't seem to work right away and you then pitched a dried lager yeast on top of it. Unless you brewed at around 15C (a temp at the upper end of the range for lagers and at the lower end of the range for ales) you probably brewed at a temp unsuitable for one of the yeasts.

Hopefully you brewed at around 10-12C and the lager yeast loved it, taking over from the ale that couldn't cope at that temp. If you brewed above 15C expect the beer to taste fruity (like sharp bananas) and probably unpleasant from the esters produced by the lager yeast brewing too hot.

I think Ben is right and you might need to give the yeast more time to prove itself before desperately pitching another one. Better still to get the starter going before you start cooking the brew.

Cheers

 

[Nearly]

Thanks gents, I think you are both correct.... I am too impatient. When I am brewing I have a feeling of 'quick!, before infection sets in'. No doubt its just a lack of experience. Like everything... practice makes perfect.

I had forgotten about the fact that the lager yeast will produce esters when brewing too hot.... bugger. The wet towel I have on that brew is only taking it down to 16 degrees. Banana beer might grow on me maybe??

Thanks again fellas for your help.... there is no substitute for experience and on this site I am benefiting from yours... :chug: Thanks.

 

[Gout]

When i pitched my first lager liquid yeast i grew up a starter (2 days) pitched it and then 12 hours or so later it wasn't "doing" anything , thats what i thought because no bubbles.

i was going crazy thinking it didn't work what to do what to do!!!!!

then the next day it fired up and it was as happy as could be, beer turned out fine.

that was more than 24 hrs to start.

Also with some of my starters you never see any bubbles but boy it takes off in the wort so it must have done somthing (gass in solution in the starter also)


so maybe you can next time a few hours to even a day before ou brew, prove the yeast in warm water 35deg? (it wakes it up and water cools down as it wakes hence no damage) then make a starter of about 1040. i think its half a cup malt to 1Lt? not sure about this make sure first!.

then pitch it into a 1-2Lt starter, Cleaned soda plastic PET bottles are good. will it with say 1.5Lt (2L bottle) then squeeze the air out, as the starter fires up the bottle expands, proving its giving off gas. when you ready to brew throw that in and you know the yeast is ready!, and its got a head start by starting to grow!

keep the starter at aprox the temp you will brew, / pitch the yeast so you dont shock it


at the end of the day have fun and dont stress the kit yeasts are VERY!!!! strong i have never killed one. Even knew a bloke that got his to over 30 deg in a hot summer in melbourne, and after thinking he would need to throw it out after some time in the bottle it was fine

good ol coopers yeast

P.S good book that covers all this type of info and heaps more (yet explains it simply)
from kit to full grain is "How To Brew" by John Palmer its about $40 but great info and I am reading it now - recomend, and i wish i read it 5 yrs ago ....

- now back to work

 

[deebee]

Nearly,

At 16C I reckon that lager yeast won't be horrible. You will taste esters and it will be a flaw in your beer but not overwhelming. At least you will get to learn what they taste like. Maybe one tip might be to slightly under-prime it. I have a feeling that over-carbonation makes it more prominent, sort of carries it to your nose. (Anyone think different to this??) Age it in the bottle (are you bottling it?), serve it icy and it should be reasonable after a few months: visitors' beer.

I have certainly drunk estery batches to the last bottle - they are wet, they contain alcohol and if you put them in the frig, they get cold.

 

[Nearly]

Thanks Ben.. A most helpful post. I will do as you suggest next time... should be good.

Thanks deebee, good advice... I will try the beer and see... as you say, even if there is a bit of ester I gain the taste knowledge.

I have a loan of my cousins keg system... I am buying my own system bit by bit over time. Kegging is great. Thanks again fellas.