Toffee taste plaguing bottle beer - free offer

[mosto]

Hey Wiggman,

I'm very much a novice as far as identifying off flavours go, but I'm only half an hour away out at Manildra and am in Orange often, so would be happy to sample if you just want someone else's thoughts.

Just a thought, but to see if it is in the kegged beer, but not detected due to not having to be conditioned, would it be worthwhile bottling one or two off the tap once carbed and letting them sit at conditioning temps for a week or two. Might help identify if the problem is there prior to bottling, or if it is a result of the conditioning process itself.

Cheers,

 

[hijukal]

I use a hydrometer as my guide. Leaving it on the yeast longer is definitely the first step.

Although a hydrometer will tell you when yeast has finished fermentation, it won't tell you when they've finished their cleanup phase which is dependent on the yeast strain, temperature and the beer. Personally, I try to leave my beer on the yeast for at least 3-4 days after I'm sure fermentation is finished. A minimum of two weeks for almost all beers is just what I expect. I've left beers for 6 (or possibly 8) weeks on the yeast and while I wouldn't recommend doing that, it's never created any serious problems.

Also, remember that even if diacetyl isn't created, the precursors can remain in the beer. This means that when you bottle with sugars (white sugar, DME, whatever), the yeast gets started again and starts fermenting the new sugars, possibly creating more diacetyl. A little bit can go unnoticed, and it can fade with more time, so just try extending your times out a bit (minimum two weeks in fermenter, minimum two weeks in bottle) and see how that works.

 

[TheExpat]

I'm really new to this bit I understand a lot of PET bottles are treated with nylon to prevent oxygenation in the bottle occurring as the PET is slightly porous on its own. I noted you washed your bottles in hot water, which I thought was not recommended. how hot exactly as you may have inadvertently damaged their integrity? Is that possible? You mentioned only bottled beers were affected? Obviously the longer they are in a state where oxygen is present the worse they will get?

I could be way off base and am learning and reading a lot still!

 

[TheWiggman]

Thanks Expal but I've used glass on my personal bottles with the same (albeit less severe) problems.
I personally wouldn't want to wash any bottles with cold water and have never heard it not recommended for PET.

 

[TheWiggman]

Just a follow up - all beers since this 'debarkle' have been completely free of the caramel/toffee flavour with the minor exception of a young British ale that actually suited it quite well. 2 weeks later and it was gone. Almost certain the problem has been diacetyl. It's strange though because I wouldn't describe it as buttery. To my tastebuds it was similar to crystal malts, but heavy and unpleasant and ruined the hops.

Thanks all for your help.

 

[manticle]

Butter is only one descriptor. Everyone perceives and interprets things differently and different levels of the same compound will taste different too.

Butterscotch and toffee can be valid descriptors too and I know some judges can misinterpret heavy use of crystal as diacetyl.