The New Under Class Of Brewer - Ager's

[chappo1970]

Quite frankly here's my point.

I take great offense being labelled an AG bigot by assholes who think there is some sort of bias, prejudice or special "AG club". As Shed101 quite rightly demostrated (See below quote) it was only 18 months or so ago that I was a noob to AHB and brewing myself. However I am over the "noob" factor as being an excuse to give wrong and bad advice and as a beating stick to discredit experenced AG brewers I do personally know.

Look Chappo you poor downtrodden AG-head ... oh shit i've got tears on the keyboard, it's really not too late to turn back to the light-side, after all it's not that long ago you were all shy and unsure and asking about the next steps is it?

I am completely sick to death of the bullshit over the number post counts and how that somehow equates to little or abundance of knowledge. FFS use your own god given brain and work it out yourself, take the advice which makes the most sense and apply it. If it doesn't turn out then just make sure you learn from your mistake. Hell brewing has so many variables no one answer can possibly be 100% correct. Plus a lot of brewing and it's practices are completely subjective, no? Yes I have a high post count, BIG WHOOP? Does that mean I am a brewing god? NO IT DOESN'T! Have I ever professed or proclaimed to being a brewing god? If anything I am just another bloody idiot who brews beer and enjoys the company of fellow brewers no matter their skill level and or brewing knowledge. I am without a doubt the biggest frivilous poster on AHB, I constantly dribble shit, railroad stupid threads and post pictures of boobies. (You'll probably want to bookmark that one for future ammunition assholes) I probably suffer from ADHD and need to seek advice from Willie Mason?

I defy anyone on AHB to say they have ever been seriously snubbed by me because of their brewing knowledge or brewing skills. I offer advice where I can or when asked. I have probably offer bad advice at some stage, I don't refute that. However, up until just recently I opened my house and my life by regularly hosting brew days, AT MY EXPENSE LET ME ADD, trying to encourage noobs to attend, and I can not recall EVER refusing someone INCLUSION because they are a noob or an inexperienced brewer. It's a shame the same respect sometimes wasn't given back, huh? I have hosted at least 2 Big Brew days and case swaps plus at least a dozen or more brew days, which is more than I see others here contributing.

If I hear of a fellow AHBer passing thru Brissy I always make my house and brewery open to them, and I don't bias them to a skill level. If need be there is ALWAYS a bed here at Chappo Manor for the weary brewer, within reason obviously. Same goes if I travel here in Qld or interstate, I try to go out of my way to meet my fellow brewerhood. I enjoy it no doubt about it and besides this hobby has a huge social element attached should you wish to partake of it. Otherwise you can sit behind your little keyboard and critique all you want, no?

As far as I can recall I have always given my obsolete brewing equipment and odds and sods away to other worthwhile brewers, I never sold or tried to sell brewing gear to anyone as far as I can recall. I have preferred to give it away to struggling brewers in the hope that they too can advance their skills and abilities with better equipment. Do a search of the AHB market for yourself if you think I am full of shit. I have on many many occassions also either helped other brewers fabricate their gear to suit their intent and or lent the tools for them to do it themselves without a word of compensation except "Come over to Chappo Manor and have a beer with me".

I am guilty in the past of offering advice on subject matters I know such as welding, fabrication etc. I am not what you would call a beer geek who fusses and farts around with every little detail of the brewing process. Don't ask me how to condition my brewing water as I don't have a clue. If anything I am the eternal tinkerer and enjoy that part most with brewing. I enjoy formulating recipes and love the rewards this brewing hobby brings.
Quite frankly sentiments of "You need a hug", "Dry your eyes" and or "Need a friend" just plain piss me off and is a huge factor as to why I barely bother anymore. I have done things because I enjoyed it, and on occassion I have been used and abused, but that goes with the territory of extending yourself to others that you do not know, yes? So I can only blame myself huh? But I won't gut being labelled by those who don't walk the walk. I ask you how much have you really contributed to others that you feel you have the right to comment or accuse me of being in some exclusive club?

So in light of the above apparently I am some sort of AG prick because I don't respond the K&K section of the forum?

Right at this moment I feel like saying **** it all, it's just not worth the bullshit with the attitudes of some. I can see why others no longer bother.

And no I haven't been drinking I am just completely pissed off!

I don't want your thanks, appreciation or even acknowledgement so don't bother posting in reply. I know who my mates are here on AHB. That wasn't my intention. My intention, for your clarification, is the first line of this post OK!

Chappo OUT!

 

[Screwtop]

Quite frankly here's my point.

I take great offense being labelled an AG bigot by assholes who think there is some sort of bias, prejudice or special "AG club". As Shed101 quite rightly demostrated (See below quote) it was only 18 months or so ago that I was a noob to AHB and brewing myself. However I am over the "noob" factor as being an excuse to give wrong and bad advice and as a beating stick to discredit experenced AG brewers I do personally know.



I am completely sick to death of the bullshit over the number post counts and how that somehow equates to little or abundance of knowledge. FFS use your own god given brain and work it out yourself, take the advice which makes the most sense and apply it. If it doesn't turn out then just make sure you learn from your mistake. Hell brewing has so many variables no one answer can possibly be 100% correct. Plus a lot of brewing and it's practices are completely subjective, no? Yes I have a high post count, BIG WHOOP? Does that mean I am a brewing god? NO IT DOESN'T! Have I ever professed or proclaimed to being a brewing god? If anything I am just another bloody idiot who brews beer and enjoys the company of fellow brewers no matter their skill level and or brewing knowledge. I am without a doubt the biggest frivilous poster on AHB, I constantly dribble shit, railroad stupid threads and post pictures of boobies. (You'll probably want to bookmark that one for future ammunition assholes) I probably suffer from ADHD and need to seek advice from Willie Mason?

I defy anyone on AHB to say they have ever been seriously snubbed by me because of their brewing knowledge or brewing skills. I offer advice where I can or when asked. I have probably offer bad advice at some stage, I don't refute that. However, up until just recently I opened my house and my life by regularly hosting brew days, AT MY EXPENSE LET ME ADD, trying to encourage noobs to attend, and I can not recall EVER refusing someone INCLUSION because they are a noob or an inexperienced brewer. It's a shame the same respect sometimes wasn't given back, huh? I have hosted at least 2 Big Brew days and case swaps plus at least a dozen or more brew days, which is more than I see others here contributing.

If I hear of a fellow AHBer passing thru Brissy I always make my house and brewery open to them, and I don't bias them to a skill level. If need be there is ALWAYS a bed here at Chappo Manor for the weary brewer, within reason obviously. Same goes if I travel here in Qld or interstate, I try to go out of my way to meet my fellow brewerhood. I enjoy it no doubt about it and besides this hobby has a huge social element attached should you wish to partake of it. Otherwise you can sit behind your little keyboard and critique all you want, no?

As far as I can recall I have always given my obsolete brewing equipment and odds and sods away to other worthwhile brewers, I never sold or tried to sell brewing gear to anyone as far as I can recall. I have preferred to give it away to struggling brewers in the hope that they too can advance their skills and abilities with better equipment. Do a search of the AHB market for yourself if you think I am full of shit. I have on many many occassions also either helped other brewers fabricate their gear to suit their intent and or lent the tools for them to do it themselves without a word of compensation except "Come over to Chappo Manor and have a beer with me".

I am guilty in the past of offering advice on subject matters I know such as welding, fabrication etc. I am not what you would call a beer geek who fusses and farts around with every little detail of the brewing process. Don't ask me how to condition my brewing water as I don't have a clue. If anything I am the eternal tinkerer and enjoy that part most with brewing. I enjoy formulating recipes and love the rewards this brewing hobby brings.
Quite frankly sentiments of "You need a hug", "Dry your eyes" and or "Need a friend" just plain piss me off and is a huge factor as to why I barely bother anymore. I have done things because I enjoyed it, and on occassion I have been used and abused, but that goes with the territory of extending yourself to others that you do not know, yes? So I can only blame myself huh? But I won't gut being labelled by those who don't walk the walk. I ask you how much have you really contributed to others that you feel you have the right to comment or accuse me of being in some exclusive club?

So in light of the above apparently I am some sort of AG prick because I don't respond the K&K section of the forum?

Right at this moment I feel like saying **** it all, it's just not worth the bullshit with the attitudes of some. I can see why others no longer bother.

And no I haven't been drinking I am just completely pissed off!

I don't want your thanks, appreciation or even acknowledgement so don't bother posting in reply. I know who my mates are here on AHB. That wasn't my intention. My intention, for your clarification, is the first line of this post OK!

Chappo OUT!

Because I don't give a **** I'm going to reply.

What! Your not the Mesiah

Good on ya Chap Chap, well said. I'm another bloody idiot who brews beer and enjoys the company of other bloody idiots, luckily most of them make bloody great beer.

From now on when I see the likes of "Sounds ok to me, I had one finish at 1.022 and bottled it with less sugar" or "I reckon its ok, since you tasted it and it still seems sugary then I'd let if ferment for another couple of weeks" No way will I be offering any info and looking like a smart arse.

Leave the whole fcuking place to the knowledgable noobs. I can make good beer, thats all that matters, why bother sharing info to be kicked in the balls for doing so.

Screwy

 

[Shed101]

Perhaps it's all just a big misunderstanding?

Chappo, i'm on my way to Brissy right now and my missus wants you to help me weld my mouth shut... can you help?

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

well I must say,,,, I think I've missed something .!!!!!!!

cheers

 

[chappo1970]

Amen Screwy!

Screwy, is another one I know travels 100's of kilometers, sometimes completely out of his way, to help and enjoy the company of fellow brewers. Again he asks ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in return except to maybe enjoy a beer. When I was a Noob I had a run in with Screwy. I freely admit I was pompus asshole noob and completely naive to how he was trying to help me. We sorted it out over a PM or three and a phone call IIRC. We have since, well to me anyway, been best of mates since. In fact it was Screwy and Sully (although he is gay and doesn't brew much any more :icon_cheers: ) who helped me get my HERMS together for which I will always be grateful for. No one brewer here is the source of all brewing enlightenment but collectively that knowledge base is awesome without peer.

Chappo, i'm on my way to Brissy right now and my missus wants you to help me weld my mouth shut... can you help?

Sorry Shed I don't have any issue with you mate. Unfortunately the written word sometimes lacks expression to properly convey what I was trying to say. What you highlighted is completely correct and I am far from offended. If anything I makes my point. However if you are down Logan way call in for a cold one, I'd be happy break bread...er beer with ya. :beerbang:

 

[Shed101]

I'd be happy break bread...er beer with ya. :beerbang:

Cool ... count me int...

but i don't really like beer. Prefer pink gin :unsure:

 

[Screwtop]

Cool ... count me int...

but i don't really like beer. Prefer pink gin :unsure:

Geraldine...........is that you :lol:

 

[Nick JD]

The reason Chappo senses an attitude lately towards some of our more knowledgable brewers is that some of them have fallen off their highchair and need a big hug from Mummy because no one appreciates them.

 

[chappo1970]

The reason Chappo senses an attitude lately towards some of our more knowledgable brewers is that some of them have fallen off their highchair and need a big hug from Mummy because no one appreciates them.

Awwww c'mon Nick you can do much better than that mate. I took you as being remotely of some substance. Surely someone of your superior intelligence could structure a much better point of view other than Na naa na na naa naa Chappo's a big sook and needs his Mummy? I was wrong. Which is a shame.

 

[jayse]

snipped>
Hell brewing has so many variables no one answer can possibly be 100% correct.

I disagree all my advice is 100% correct and if you don't follow it to the letter your doing it wrong
There is only one way to make beer, my way!



Jayse(sir to all of you)

 

[Shed101]

Geraldine...........is that you :lol:

Rumbled

 

[Nick JD]

Awwww c'mon Nick you can do much better than that mate. I took you as being remotely of some substance. Surely someone of your superior intelligence could structure a much better point of view other than Na naa na na naa naa Chappo's a big sook and needs his Mummy? I was wrong. Which is a shame.

I've already give a few of my guesses, the main one being the AHB AG plutocracy's over use of possive adjectives creating a "club" mentality that causes a division between those who know, and those who don't.

I've seen many a reply to a noob that starts, "We think...", or "Here, our method..." This type of wording can lead people to believe there is some sort of initiation rites, or something they must do to become one of the plutocracy. Any deviation from the club's mindset is pounced upon by numerous members rendering the noob wondering what the **** they did wrong. Pity the fool who wonders why his airlock is not bubbling; this is a more cliche example, but I believe a fine one.

I posted the sooky picture because I don't think it's wise to demand thanks for contributions, or even expect more than nothing. Respect is like a gift - when expected it's often not what you wanted. Sometimes I'm reminded of the kid who got Action Man instead of Aqua Man and chucks the shits.

Information is wealth, but it's also power. People like to fight the power.

 

[schooey]

Rumbled

Awwwww... she's hawt! She can play with my mash paddle any time...

 

[manticle]

I've already give a few of my guesses, the main one being the AHB AG plutocracy's over use of possive adjectives creating a "club" mentality that causes a division between those who know, and those who don't.

I've seen many a reply to a noob that starts, "We think...", or "Here, our method..." This type of wording can lead people to believe there is some sort of initiation rites, or something they must do to become one of the plutocracy. Any deviation from the club's mindset is pounced upon by numerous members rendering the noob wondering what the **** they did wrong. Pity the fool who wonders why his airlock is not bubbling; this is a more cliche example, but I believe a fine one.

I posted the sooky picture because I don't think it's wise to demand thanks for contributions, or even expect more than nothing. Respect is like a gift - when expected it's often not what you wanted. Sometimes I'm reminded of the kid who got Action Man instead of Aqua Man and chucks the shits.

Information is wealth, but it's also power. People like to fight the power.

Despite it being the most commonly picked on noob question, there are actually endless threads where people have endeavoured to make a concerted effort to answer these kinds of questions (and will continue to do so). You seem to think you're a one man revolutionary fighting the power for the little man but loads of people actually enjoy sharing their knowledge.

It's not too much to hope that some might want to help themselves a little more by actively researching as the answers may not be that hard to find but this forum has been full of people who, at various times make a massive effort to give sound, clear advice. Despite many disagreements with you and your way of posting, I'd include you in that group (for some posts - some others are antagonistic or pointless unfunny jokes with dumb smileys on the end and a few that contain advice/suggestions that are a bit dodgy). You're not Bakunin though.

I joined this forum with a reasonably stupid question (searched first- google and here). Got given good advice, stuck around, read stuff, learned stuff (from people like buttersd70 and screwtop) got given stuff (from people like chappo, cocko and razz) met brewers and started making better beer. It's not hard - it's a group of people who have one thing in common. Some of them may dislike or disagree with other members of the group. Nothing new there.

This whole supposed exclusive club thing is bollocks. I've never come across a general group of people so willing to share in depth knowledge, time, their own backyards, equipment, beer etc. Hell some of them would probably even be happy for you to shag their partners. Try joining a music forum and see how noob unfriendly people can be.

Excusive club my arse.

 

[Tony M]

Here's my under class brewery... What was i thinking? When all I needed was a can opener?

Hey Chappo old chap, are you associated with the Mt. Tambourine brewery? I had three lovely beers there last month, an APA, IPA and a dubbel. Then they spoiled it all with something called a Rainforest Lager. Methinks it had a bit of the forest floor in it. When I quizzed the gentleman behind the bar, he said it was their most popular beer. Maybe it tastes like XXXX or something.

 

[chappo1970]

I've already give a few of my guesses, the main one being the AHB AG plutocracy's over use of possive adjectives creating a "club" mentality that causes a division between those who know, and those who don't.

I've seen many a reply to a noob that starts, "We think...", or "Here, our method..." This type of wording can lead people to believe there is some sort of initiation rites, or something they must do to become one of the plutocracy. Any deviation from the club's mindset is pounced upon by numerous members rendering the noob wondering what the **** they did wrong. Pity the fool who wonders why his airlock is not bubbling; this is a more cliche example, but I believe a fine one.

I posted the sooky picture because I don't think it's wise to demand thanks for contributions, or even expect more than nothing. Respect is like a gift - when expected it's often not what you wanted. Sometimes I'm reminded of the kid who got Action Man instead of Aqua Man and chucks the shits.

Information is wealth, but it's also power. People like to fight the power.

Ah! So you have the shits because some of your ideas on brewing were poo pooed by the big mean Experienced Brewers. I have noticed a track record of leaping into a stoush when your views are questioned.

I do agree that there are some members here that need to show more temperance towards answering questions from Noobs and even more experienced brewers. I don't think "Use Google" is a good or fair answer and that type of response should be modded for the better over all good.

BTW I didn't demand thanks or respect, especially from you Nick, or anyone here on ANB and clearly stated so, to state otherwise is asinine in it's application to point your arguement. What I was doing was giving background but figured some jug head would use it as you have done. Deflecting from the debate by making a direct personal attack on me, who gave you the ammunition freely, is very poor form in my books. If we were in a pub, I would suggest, your balls wouldn't nearly be so big as to attack me personally and you would probably be standing in your own puddle by now. Perhaps you just need some self esteem coaching?

Just to keep the debate on track, again, and I reiterate:

1. I take great offense being labelled an AG bigot by assholes who think there is some sort of bias, prejudice or special "AG club".
2. I am over the "noob" factor as being an excuse to give wrong and bad advice and as a beating stick to discredit experenced AG brewers.
3. I am completely sick to death of the bullshit over the number of post counts and how that somehow equates to little or abundance of knowledge
4. I feel like saying **** it all, it's just not worth the bullshit with the attitudes of some
5. I can see why others no longer bother

Peace and beers

Chappo

 

[schooey]

Pfft...the whole whinge argument of noobs being spurned by the 'in club' is moot. Sure there a few people that join, are here for a month or two, start brewing with grain and think they are Michael Jackson and jump on people that ask repetitive questions in attempt to attract a few iHero points. But big ******* deal...if you are reduced to a sobbing heap by a few words on a screen from a forum upstart flaming you, and give up and run away, then you don't possess the passion to make good beer in the first place.

Harden the **** up...

Or just ignore all those mean and nasty words like most of the rest of us did when we were noobs here and keep searching and asking and one day you will see the light

 

[[email protected]]

+1 Chappo

I agree whole heartedly. There are a number of people on AHB that think they know a lot, but in essence are a bit (**warning** politically incorrect content) retarded. The amount of beer I've tried/judged/swapped by self proclaimed great brewers that are totally sh!t is overwhelming. Tell those people what's wrong with there beer and tell you that you don't know beer and your uneducated. But here's the trump card, I never tell people what I do for a living. I made my hobby my career and I possibly do know a hell of a lot more about beer than they do. Do I make beer for a living? Yes. Am I an internationally trained taster? Yes. Do I judge, scale, score, rate beer every day? Yes. Do I get on AHB and tell everyone about it? NO.

I've attended state events/ANHC etc. and you find the same types there as on AHB. The guys that are promoting how good they are don't get much of my attention. The guys who are interested in the development of skills, abilities and techniques I find I have a lot more of a interesting conversation with. The brewers that are curious about the art of brewing seem to be the same guys that like to share their knowledge, not stroke their ego. These are the people I like to share a few beers with.

I also don't read the K+K forum so put me in the same AG club as Chappo. I'm an AG brewer and don't have an interest in brewing that way. But I will and do help the noobs understand the process and where their problems (if any) can come from.

AHB = Allgrain Home Brewer doesn't it??? :lol:

Booz

 

[yardy]

I've seen many a reply to a noob that starts, "We think...", or "Here, our method..." This type of wording can lead people to believe there is some sort of initiation rites, or something they must do to become one of the plutocracy.

sounds like PC bullshit to me, if you're mindset is that soft that you look past the information provided, and concentrate wholly on the "We think..." and "Here, our method..." then you've got bigger problems than an airlock void of bubbles.

 

[jakub76]

Hell some of them would probably even be happy for you to shag their partners.

Right, that's sealed it...I've got to start getting to these case swaps.