The Grainfather

[Beersuit]

I'm not entirely sure how it does it Wobbly. I think it might have something to do with the speed of the pump on the Grainfather.

 

[DU99]

Was a price mentioned

 

[Beersuit]

Recommended retail will be $999 mate. I tried to find out if they will do a launch special but the answer I got was no $999.

 

[QldKev]

<<snip>>

Changed the mash temp to 66 and started the timer to see how fast the ramps were. 16 minutes to climb 11 degrees so an impressive 1.4 degree a minute.

<<snip>>

The let downs were a slight over and under shoot by a degree on the temps when getting to them and the slightly lower efficiency. Both of these points could easily be fixed both by the brewer and the manufactures.Talking to Joe he said they are already coming up with a PID control unit that will be upgradeable on all models. They seem to think that people need to feel like they are doing something and that was the reason for the control unit they went for.

<<snip>>

16 mins to raise 11 degrees is not 1.4 degree per min, it is 1.4 mins per degree. 16/11 = 1.4
but
11/16 for degrees per min = 0.6875 degree per min

So they are going straight to a programmable pid? With my comments prior I though a standard single set point pid would be great. Then the user still has the manual control for set points/times, but the controller is smart enough to avoid the over/under shooting issue you found, as a bonus they would need need the 500w element and wiring.

Overall I think it is a great bit of kit once they get the last few bits sorted.

 

[QldKev]

Am I missing something here (no don't answer that)
According to the brochure in an earlier post the heating element is only 2000 watts with a second 500 watt element for mash temperature control.
The BM element in the 20lt unit is 2200 watts so how does the GF achieve faster times than the BM?
Or do both elements in the GF (2000 + 500) operate when ramping and/or boiling.

Cheers

Wobbly

Depending on volumes, the ramp rate it achieved is very realistic. Using 32L (guess at volume used) and a 2,000w element and the calc on my website, I worked out 0.9 degree per min would be achievable with zero losses.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Braumeister V Grainfather

IMAG0137.jpg

Today I was given the chance to run the Grainfather side by side with our Braumeister. JoeD from Imake let me choose the recipe and brew it. I decided on a rye ipa I have done a few times without fault on the Braumeister. I figured the 24% rye and a protein rest would test the thing out hopefully get a stuck mash. 55 degrees for 10, 66 degrees for 45,72 degrees for 20 then a mash out at 76 for 10

So mashed in the Braumeister first not to give it a head start but so I would have time between the 2 when it came time to remove malt pipes and sparge. Note the gentle trickle of the Braumeister.

IMAG0139.jpg

Mashed in the Grainfather and Joe gave me a rundown on how the controls work and started recirculating at a rate of knots. I thought you beauty this thing will stick for sure.

IMAG0140.jpg

Changed the mash temp to 66 and started the timer to see how fast the ramps were. 16 minutes to climb 11 degrees so an impressive 1.4 degree a minute. It seemed to handle everything I threw at it thus far. I took it through to the 72 rest and checked the display on the Braumeister, Still had 15 minutes at 66 left, wow this thing is fast we said. Got it to mash out, removed the malt pipe and sparged to get my volume to 28 litres with ease. No stuck sparge, no problems there at all.

The Braumeister was still chugging away slowly just getting to 72 at this point.

Weighed out 2 x 240 grams of hops, had a beer and chatted to Joe about what there plans were for the units and finally the Braumeister was ready to sparge just as the Grainfather was starting to boil.

Had some lunch and more beer waiting to put in our payload of hops at 10 to go.

IMAG0142.jpg

Finished the boil and checked the gravity 1.059. 1 point off the expected gravity checked volumes and was 2 litres under for the recipe so roughly 75% brew house efficiency. I had worked the recipe at 80%. Ah well close enough we said. Looked at the Braumeister display and still had 50 minutes left on the boil.

We had to use the counter flow chiller to get the wort out and into a cube as all our fermenting fridges are full. So sorry guys no specks on how quick that works.

Results.
We all know the Braumeister is a good bit of kit and what it does it does well but I was astounded at how well the Grainfather stacked up next to it. Quicker ramp times. Bigger malt pipe and the boil was a lot more vigorous were the first things that struck me. The let downs were a slight over and under shoot by a degree on the temps when getting to them and the slightly lower efficiency. Both of these points could easily be fixed both by the brewer and the manufactures.Talking to Joe he said they are already coming up with a PID control unit that will be upgradeable on all models. They seem to think that people need to feel like they are doing something and that was the reason for the control unit they went for.
After spending a few hours on it I would quite happily buy one especially for the price they are going to go for.

Had you presented your brewing experience on the test would have made it more viable, but all the same a good review.
Let me at this machine and the test will be more me orientated I know what I want.
Nev

 

[Beersuit]

Thanks for correcting me kev I thought it was a bit quick. I don't know a lot of the details of the upgrade kit only time will tell.

You should have put a patent on your 1v kev they may have stolen a few ideas.

 

[Beersuit]

They should be landing early November apparently nev so you might just have to wait till then.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

They should be landing early November apparently nev so you might just have to wait till then.

Your lucky to have got to play.
I can wait to get it to WA (wait a while)

 

[aamcle]

Grainfather questions.:-

This has me confused, it seems to be a variation on a recirculating BIAB but the flow rate of returning wort is high.

I've built a couple of recirculating Biab rigs with solid sided baskets and l found that the returned flow had to be low or the wort overflowed. The GF has a high flow so :-

1, In use is there a large difference between the level of the wort in the malt pipe and the level in the outer vessel?

2, ls the malt pipe sealed to the bottom of the urn like a BM?

3, Dose wort overflow the mash pipe during recirculation?

4, What is the top filter for?

5, Does all the returning wort make its way through the grain?


Many Thanks. Aamcle

 

[Florian]

can you give more or less specific examples of low and high flow rates of a recirculating 1v system?

 

[Edak]

Thanks for the great review.

You will find that one the PID is added to the GF that the brew day will be slower. That is the likely reason why the BM was slower.

 

[Beersuit]

1. The malt pipe in the GF is huge it slides into the boiler very snugly.

2. The pipe isn't stuck to the bottom.

3. 4. & 5. There is a tube in the center of the malt pipe that allows excess wort to detour straight to the bottom missing the grain bed. The top filter holds the grain in the pipe stopping it from flinging out of the basket during recirculation.

 

[Beersuit]

I still think it will ramp quicker it will just be a little more stable at holding temps.

 

[barls]

topics merged again

 

[wobbly]

Not knocking something I haven't seen or used but just interested.

• Seeing is was supposed to be a side by side comparison then assuming the vols would have been the same my question is how did the GF achieve faster ramps with 2000 watt input than the BM with 2200 watt input?
• How can you tell there is/was no stuck mash/sparge if the tube in the centre bypasses any wort not passing through the grain bed?

Wobbly

 

[doon]

Holy crap just watching a video on these, there are lots of little bits and pieces you need to put on take off etc you wouldnt want to lose any of them!

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Holy crap just watching a video on these, there are lots of little bits and pieces you need to put on take off etc you wouldnt want to lose any of them!

Best not Drink and Drive it then .

 

[aamcle]

Nice a recirculating biab with a bi- pass, I'd think most of the wort goes down the tube so a stuck sparge is impossible.

What a tidy bit of kit!

Aamcle

 

[Trevandjo]

Who has got the distribution rights? Or will it be an online purchase, LHBS or... Harvey Norman???