Subbing carafa special 1 with carafa 3.

[Truman42]

Gday Brewers,

Im wanting to brew Andrew Qlds Robust Porter this weekend but cannot get any Carafa special 1.

Recipe here

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/508-andrewqlds-robust-porter/

(Grain and Grape have it but I dont have the time to drive over there on Saturday as Im working.)

I can however get Carafa 3, which Ive considered using as a sub and adding it to the mash in the last 10 minutes so I dont get the roast bitterness.

There seems to be conflicting reports out there as to if doing this is advisable or not with some saying you cant sub anything for carafa special 1.

Anyone done this with good results?

 

[pcmfisher]

I think some may be having a lend of you.

 

[Adr_0]

Are you asking if you can use Carafa 3 in an appropriate proportion to make delicious beer, or whether it is going to give the same softness as Carafa Sp 1?

 

[Truman42]

Im asking both. Can I use carafa 3 in perhaps a lesser quantity than carafa special 1 and will adding it in the last ten minutes of the mash be sufficient to not get the roasted bitterness that carafa gives?

 

[Parks]

I haven't used Carafa I but have used plenty of Carafa 3 and I can tell you it's really quite a smooth, soft malt in its own right.

I would sub away IMO.

 

[Midnight Brew]

If you're willing to drive to ringwood/croydon today I can give you some. Just bought 2kg of carafa special I a few days ago.

 

[Adr_0]

Damn navigation.

Can't really comment on the last 10min of the mash, but my gut feel would be - given it's a roasted barley - you would get 100% of it extracted in your sparge(s) and your mash out. IMO even if you only add it to your last sparge, it will make minimal extract difference and zero taste/colour difference vs adding it at any stage in the mash. Someone else who has done this should probably chime in to verify or argue, as I've never done it before.

Looking at the recipe, it looks like they are putting the Carafa Sp 1 in 'under' the chocolate malt that's there too. To get a similar 'effect', 200-300g would probably do the job. Anything from 200-450g would count as 'delicious' though IMO. :chug:

 

[Truman42]

Damn navigation.

Can't really comment on the last 10min of the mash, but my gut feel would be - given it's a roasted barley - you would get 100% of it extracted in your sparge(s) and your mash out. IMO even if you only add it to your last sparge, it will make minimal extract difference and zero taste/colour difference vs adding it at any stage in the mash. Someone else who has done this should probably chime in to verify or argue, as I've never done it before.

Looking at the recipe, it looks like they are putting the Carafa Sp 1 in 'under' the chocolate malt that's there too. To get a similar 'effect', 200-300g would probably do the job. Anything from 200-450g would count as 'delicious' though IMO. :chug:

So your saying I could use carafa 3 but only around 200-300 grams as a sub?? Sorry but I didnt quite get your reply.

PM sent to Midnight brew hopefully he can hook me up.

 

[seamad]

I normally cold steep 4:1 (water:grain) for 24 hours, drain in a bit of cheese cloth and add to boil @ 10 minutes(to go). No harshness.

 

[QldKev]

I normally cold steep 4:1 (water:grain) for 24 hours, drain in a bit of cheese cloth and add to boil @ 10 minutes(to go). No harshness.

I understand with normal Roasted Barley with this being a Porter, but would you still do this with Carafa, since it is dehusked?

 

[QldKev]

I think I threw the spanner in the works, and caused this thread. When I said I would not substitute it, I meant for another grain type. So Carafa II or III would be ok. But something like Roasted Barley would not cut it IMHO. And with Carafa I personally would add it for the full mash.

 

[seamad]

I understand with normal Roasted Barley with this being a Porter, but would you still do this with Carafa, since it is dehusked?

Yep, still think it's smoother done this way, also makes my pH and salt additions easier. With RB , especially if I want the roastiness, I'll hot steep that separately and add to the end of boil .
Not sure whether it's the separate steeping or the better pH management that I find improves the beer.

 

[Adr_0]

So your saying I could use carafa 3 but only around 200-300 grams as a sub?? Sorry but I didnt quite get your reply.

PM sent to Midnight brew hopefully he can hook me up.

If MB can hook you up, problem solvered.

I think 200-300g of Carafa III would work as a substitute. All I meant about the "up to 450g" means that I would still drink it and think it was delicious.

Maybe cold-steeping is the way to go? You could probably up the quantity if you did this.

People aren't confusing Carafa with Carafa Special, are they? Carafa is still IMO loads better than black and obviously roast barley, but it is not a dehusked malt.

 

[Bizier]

I reckon you will be fine, especially if you can do a little maths based on the EBC.

Personally I would sub with a little pale choc, perhaps a mix of pale choc and Carafa III.

Neither would be 100% identical, though both should be delicious and equally valid as a recipe in their own right.

 

[QldKev]

I reckon you will be fine, especially if you can do a little maths based on the EBC.

Personally I would sub with a little pale choc, perhaps a mix of pale choc and Carafa III.

Neither would be 100% identical, though both should be delicious and equally valid as a recipe in their own right.

Do you think pale choc would be be close? Maybe it's my taste buds, but I thought it would not be a suitable swap. What does everyone else think of this idea?

 

[Screwtop]

What would I do in this situation? Sub using less Caraffa III to achieve desired colour, add it for 10 min of the mash (yes even with dehusked) up the crystal a tad (from memory this recipe has around the usual UK rate of 7.5 % crystal, up this to maybe 15%) and make the beer. Mash on the high side or choose a lower attenuating yeast.

No recipe made by another brewer on a different rig will ever be 'that' beer. This will be Trumans Porter, what will it be like?

Chers,

Screwy

 

[lukiferj]

No recipe made by another brewer on a different rig will ever be 'that' beer.

Great quote Screwy! I have given up trying to exactly replicate beers but make similar styles to beers I like. My beers are better for it and takes the stress out of brewing for me.