Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[therook]

This is my latest... I did a double batch and split it. Half went straight to a carboy to clear and the other half was chapitalized with 500g each of dextrose and caramelised raw sugar (1kg total).

Yeast chewed it all up in around 5 days. Then I racked to another carboy to clear and age for a bit longer.

So I should have a batch of 5.5% Regular Saison and 7% Super Saison. I shall be interested to try them side by side and note the differences. I'm guessing I'll like the super version better! :icon_drunk:

Here's the recipe;

Saison Prenez et Lourd

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 45.00 Wort Size (L): 45.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.65
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.93
Anticipated EBC: 15.2
Anticipated IBU: 31.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 79 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
31.1 3.00 kg. Bairds Pearl Great Britain 1.038 5
31.1 3.00 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt UK 1.037 7
20.7 2.00 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
10.4 1.00 kg. Bourghul Turkey 1.034 4
5.2 0.50 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 1.037 93
1.0 0.10 kg. Dingemans Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 50
0.5 0.05 kg. JWM Amber Malt Australia 1.038 59

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Northdown Pellet 9.50 17.2 60 min.
30.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.20 12.4 90 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.20 2.0 15 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.20 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.00 Oz Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 3726 Farmhouse Ale




Warren -

How did they turn out Wazza?

Rook

 

[WSC]

Going for a mix of styles, light colour, hoppy with Saison 3711 yeast. trying to get a tasty aussie saison as a house beer so I don't have a fridge tied up all the time doing my quaffers.

Morgans Aussie Lager Tin
1kg LDME
200 Caramalt steeped
20gm Galaxy 30mins
20gm Cascade 20mins
20gm Galaxy 5 mins

24L 3711 yeast - straight from smack pack

Went to bed at midnight and by 6am the yeast is foaming up nicely, think the 3711 is pretty vigorous.

Thoughts on what this will taste like?

This has dropped to 1010 in under a week, big difference from the 3726 and it is cooler too. Was worried about the hops and yeast mix from early hydro samples but now it has dropped it is settling down and the Galaxy/Cascade are mixing with a nice spiciness/pepper from the yeast. I think this may be a good combo but will see how it goes once bottled.

 

[WSC]

Tried this from the fermenter.

Not sure the yeast and hops work, it has finished fermenting but tastes a bit like orange juice after you have cleaned your teeth!!!!

Will hopefully see it round out/mellow in the bottle.

 

[WSC]

What is the lowest anyone has brewed the 3711 yeast at?

It is getting to about 18 in my shed now.....cant's beleive 3 months ago I was worried it was getting too hot!!

 

[bconnery]

What is the lowest anyone has brewed the 3711 yeast at?

It is getting to about 18 in my shed now.....cant's beleive 3 months ago I was worried it was getting too hot!!

I found it slowed down a little much below that and had trouble getting going again. Mind you this is a sample set of 1 so far so not exactly conclusive...

Pitch it at around 20+ and then ferment wrapped in a blanket to keep it warm if you can't be bothered with a heat pad or belt (like me).
The heat from fermentation and the blanket should keep the temp up when it drop overnight.

I'm fermenting another beer with this yeast right now, in the spare cupboard in the bar, so I'll be able to see how well this plan works in a week or two.

 

[WSC]

I found it slowed down a little much below that and had trouble getting going again. Mind you this is a sample set of 1 so far so not exactly conclusive...

Pitch it at around 20+ and then ferment wrapped in a blanket to keep it warm if you can't be bothered with a heat pad or belt (like me).
The heat from fermentation and the blanket should keep the temp up when it drop overnight.

I'm fermenting another beer with this yeast right now, in the spare cupboard in the bar, so I'll be able to see how well this plan works in a week or two.

Think I'll go for the blanket, or move it into the house, will see how it goes, it is still going strong but think once the ferment slows it may stall.

 

[notung]

I'm using 3711 at the moment for Randy Mosher's 'Saisoon Buffoon' recipe with orange/grapefruit zest, a heap of coriander and a pinch of cracked black peppercorns. I pitched at 18, fermented for 3-4 days at 22 then brought up to 25 for the final few days. This is a wonderful, characterful yeast imparting a citrus edge and an amazingly full, complex mouthfeel for a beer that usually attenuates so well.

 

[WSC]

I have only used the 3711 twice and am yet to taste the beers with any age on them. I do think I prefer the flavour profile of the 3711 over the 3724, but i have fermented the 3711 alot cooler than I let the 3724 run up to, at times the 3724 hit 36 degrees in the shed.

The 3711 has only hit 30 degrees but now is more like 20 degrees.

I think I am happy with my Galaxy Hop Saison though, tried an early sample and the hop had mellowed.

My latest beer with this yeast is kind of an english beer - Coopers Pale kit, Brew Enhancer 1 (LHBS not open and needed to get malt this was all woolies had), 400g crystal, 100g Chit choc and 100g RB, 30gm fuggles at 40mins and 20gm at 5 mins.

It taste pretty good as it is fermenting but time will tell. I have also done a stout on 3724 which it just hitting it's straps after about 3 months.

Would love to hear other peoples experiments with this friendly yeast.

I'm thinking of doing a 8% stong ale/vintage ale beer with it next.

 

[WSC]

I have only used the 3711 twice and am yet to taste the beers with any age on them. I do think I prefer the flavour profile of the 3711 over the 3724, but i have fermented the 3711 alot cooler than I let the 3724 run up to, at times the 3724 hit 36 degrees in the shed.

The 3711 has only hit 30 degrees but now is more like 20 degrees.

I think I am happy with my Galaxy Hop Saison though, tried an early sample and the hop had mellowed.

My latest beer with this yeast is kind of an english beer - Coopers Pale kit, Brew Enhancer 1 (LHBS not open and needed to get malt this was all woolies had), 400g crystal, 100g Chit choc and 100g RB, 30gm fuggles at 40mins and 20gm at 5 mins.

It taste pretty good as it is fermenting but time will tell. I have also done a stout on 3724 which it just hitting it's straps after about 3 months.

Would love to hear other peoples experiments with this friendly yeast.

I'm thinking of doing a 8% stong ale/vintage ale beer with it next.

So, the Galaxy Saison is still a question mark, Galaxy for me has pineapple flavours for me and I'm not sure how that goes with this yeast.

The Mild is pretty good, bit of roast malt but not sweet as the yeast has got it down to 1004, bottled it last night so see how it carbs.

Stout down last night with 3711.

bconnery, how did yours go?

Cheers,

Wade

 

[bconnery]

So, the Galaxy Saison is still a question mark, Galaxy for me has pineapple flavours for me and I'm not sure how that goes with this yeast.

The Mild is pretty good, bit of roast malt but not sweet as the yeast has got it down to 1004, bottled it last night so see how it carbs.

Stout down last night with 3711.

bconnery, how did yours go?

Cheers,

Wade

Well it's only been kegged a few days but I'm very happy with it so far. Really nice smooth silky finish that works great with the sweeter style FES I used it in.
Between the bitter and the FES I'm starting to believe firmly that this is a nice yeast for a number of styles, at least to my taste.

 

[WSC]

Well it's only been kegged a few days but I'm very happy with it so far. Really nice smooth silky finish that works great with the sweeter style FES I used it in.
Between the bitter and the FES I'm starting to believe firmly that this is a nice yeast for a number of styles, at least to my taste.

I agree, I think I would give the fruitier higher AA% hops a miss with this yeast though.

I have now done a traditional Saison with Tettnang hops, a Stout, a Galaxy Hop Saison, a english mild/bitter and now another stout. The first 2 with the 3724 and the rest with 3711. Think I will use 3724 in summer (as it handles the high heat better) and the 3711 in winter, no need for temp control and frees up the fridge for lagers and other ales. Nice.

 

[winkle]

I've got a saison oatmeal stout using 3711 happening at the moment, should be interesting.

Has anyone tried using proculture's PRO- 86 BELGIAN SAISON ALE YEAST II? Sounds quite good from the description. Source for the yeast?

 

[manticle]

Just ordered a saison WY from craftbrewer (from memory it was a PC one) Developing a couple of recipes to use it wih over the warmer months and would like to start with a fairly simple, reasonably traditional one for starters then maybe have a play with a few others.

Looking at mainly pilsner malt with maybe 10% wheat a touch of biscuit (because I love it so) and either tettnanger or styrian goldings bittered to around 30-32. Will probably keep alc around 4-5 % for this one.
Following that I might make a similar one but with a portion of vienna then maybe one that verges on brown or red (so some spec malts). I might push the alc up to 6-7% with these.

Just reviving the thread because the warmer weather is approaching and it feels appropriate. Last summer I had a hell of a time churning out any decent beers so I'm hoping to change that. This thread has some good info I will keep digesting.

 

[DUANNE]

got my first saison of the season down fermenting now.went like clappers for two days from 1048 down to 1030 using wyeast belgian saison, but almost predictably has stuck now. also using oat malt for the first time and put in a kilo of it, ended up using the cofee grinder to mill it cause it is way to small for the mill without pissing around with the gap settings. its now sitting on 30 degrees and being completetly forgoton for at least a week or two before i check it again.also thinking of pulling 5 litres out and putting in a carboy with some brett c just for an experiment.

 

[BrenosBrews]

Just ordered a saison WY from craftbrewer (from memory it was a PC one) Developing a couple of recipes to use it wih over the warmer months and would like to start with a fairly simple, reasonably traditional one for starters then maybe have a play with a few others.

Looking at mainly pilsner malt with maybe 10% wheat a touch of biscuit (because I love it so) and either tettnanger or styrian goldings bittered to around 30-32. Will probably keep alc around 4-5 % for this one.
Following that I might make a similar one but with a portion of vienna then maybe one that verges on brown or red (so some spec malts). I might push the alc up to 6-7% with these.

Just reviving the thread because the warmer weather is approaching and it feels appropriate. Last summer I had a hell of a time churning out any decent beers so I'm hoping to change that. This thread has some good info I will keep digesting.

That would be 3711 French Saison. Don't know why Craftbrewer has PC next to it still as it's now a year round release.
Anywho, I used this in combination with 3522 Belgian Ardennes in a Saison I entered in Vicbrew this year & it got 5th.

It was mainly Pilsner with a touch of wheat & a bit of Acidulated malt. Hopped with Pacific Jade to about 25 from memory. Probably fermented a bit too cool around 19-20 as if anything it's lacking the peppery spice phenols.

Next one I'm going to combine 3724 & 3711, add a bit of Vienna & ferment warmer. Once that's done some Brettanomyces will be getting used in a Saison or 2.

 

[manticle]

How necessary is cane sugar in this style? Worth adding 5%?

 

[BrenosBrews]

How necessary is cane sugar in this style? Worth adding 5%?

Not necessary at all. Low mashing temp & lowish OG will have 3711 ripping through it. Maybe worth it in the higher ABV ones. Some honey to up the OG but still finish low will add more interest & complexity than cane sugar though.

 

[manticle]

Cool. Just ordered farmhouse ales from the book depository. 17.50, delivered to my door. Sometimes I love the internet.

 

[Tony]

I have one fermenting now..... made it to 1.038 to get it done faster and keep it at quaffable alc levels. Its probably a bit over hopped but im cleaning out some old stocks and ive gotta say....... the gas from the fermenter smells fantastic!

Its had its few days of frenzy and has slowed now..... sitting at garage temps of about 25 to 26 id say. Might have to ramp the heat up a bit to help it along.

I used a fair %age of wheat to get that dry tart maltiness into the beer to make it really quenching.

Golden Saison

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 54.00 Wort Size (L): 54.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.20
Anticipated OG: 1.038 Plato: 9.62
Anticipated EBC: 5.6
Anticipated IBU: 25.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.2 6.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
24.4 2.00 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.038 4
2.4 0.20 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.035 5

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 4.00 18.7 45 min.
10.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 6.30 3.3 45 min.
30.00 g. E.K Goldings Pellet 4.30 3.6 15 min.
40.00 g. Hallertauer Mittelfruh Pellet 6.30 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3724 Belgian Saison


Mash Schedule
-------------


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
protein rest 5 15 52 51 Infuse 59 20.16 2.46
mash 5 45 63 62 Infuse 99 7.98 3.43
hi mash 5 15 71 71 Infuse 99 9.90 4.64

 

[Stuster]

Doesn't look over hopped to me, Tony. Just looks delicious. :icon_drool2:

I would get that temp up after a day or two but really should be a great summer beer.