Style Of The Week 11/10/06 - Saison

[Spiesy]

I believe the history was it was brewed "at the end of the cool season", so you'd imagine sometime in Spring. Not sure how wildly the spring temps fluctuate in that part of Belgium, or at what point in spring fermentation would occur.

 

[technobabble66]

Still no word from Pat_00 on how his brew turned out?

 

[hwall95]

So I started a 750mL starter (will step to 3L) with my washed 3724 from my last belgian saison that turned out great and just planning to do another basic grain bill of 70% pils, 30% wheat and then ferment ambient in the current QLD temperature. However I had a rye saison the other night and loved it and was wondering if anyone has had an success with rye and 3724?

 

[hwall95]

If anyone's wondering, I've decided to go with the following:

OG: 1.055
IBU: 25

4.6kg Belgian Pils - 70%
1kg Rye - 15%
1kg Wheat - 15%
18 IBU @ 60 with Magnum
7 IBU @ cube with EKG
Big starter of re-cultured Wyeast 3724, ferment at ambient shade temperatures

 

[technobabble66]

Looks great. Keen to hear how it goes. Never used it myself

FWIW, there's a short thread that just started to do with rye - Here
Basically the bit i'd pay attention to is milling it very fine (maybe run it through the mill a few times) to get the best flavour out of it; and the problem with stuck sparges, esp when combined with a fair amount of wheat - maybe use rice hulls if you don't BIAB.

Good luck!
(& Report later!)

 

[Simdop]

I've been thinking of doing a saison, aiming for about 5% but thinking of adding a few km of peaches in secondary fermentation. Any thoughts on how that would go? Thinking of putting them through the food processor and then in a grain bag into the fermenter.

Aiming for low IBU's, probably Perle for bittering and a dash of Cascade for aroma.

Think the peaches will blend or get lost?

 

[hwall95]

Looks great. Keen to hear how it goes. Never used it myself

FWIW, there's a short thread that just started to do with rye - Here
Basically the bit i'd pay attention to is milling it very fine (maybe run it through the mill a few times) to get the best flavour out of it; and the problem with stuck sparges, esp when combined with a fair amount of wheat - maybe use rice hulls if you don't BIAB.

Good luck!
(& Report later!)

Yeah I BIAB so no problems with stuck sparges here Currently it's sitting around 1.02 down from 1.062 so no stalls thankfully. It's been fermenting at 28-30 however the weather has 'cooled' down a little bit now so I have a heater and wrapped it in insulation to keep it at 30-32 to help it finish and produce that amazing belgian saison flavour we all love! So far it's tasting pretty spot on to what I wanted! The rye goes so well saisons, can't wait to have it finished and bottled/maybe kegged depending on the beer supply situation..

Will update once it's ready to drink! :chug:

 

[drunken_snail]

hi i have brewed 6 saisons so far, ranging in strength from 5.5 to 8.6% just wondering if anyone has tried higher or lower than this range.

I know this is the approximate style range for this beer. But i was discussing with a mate how good the danstar belle saison yeast was we came to wondering how high did we think the yeast would go and still eat all the sugar.

once my gluten free saison is finished fermenting, i might try super strong saison. just because im curious.

Then i can move on and try making a biere de garde.

 

[Tahoose]

JB made a elderflower Saison that he bought to the vic case swap and I think that was about 4.5%.

Really tasty too.

 

[heyhey]

Just made my first Saison two weeks ago. It smells and tastes really good, nice and fruity (citrus and apricot like), ever so slightly sour (is best way to describe it), but I think I ruined it during milling. It has a husk aftertaste which doesn't stop you putting it down the trap, but leaves a VB sort of taste on the palette after a breathe or two. It's currently in the secondary and will likely be there for about 6 weeks. It's only my 3rd All-Grain home brew, so I'm just playing and understand the ingredients and process a bit better. First time I've milled myself too, so assuming slower speed next time.

Original Gravity (OG): 1.42 (Measured)
Final Gravity (FG): 1.002 (Measured)
Alcohol (ABV): 5.2 % (Measured)
Colour (EBC): 12.9
Bitterness (IBU): 26.8
Batch 23L

3.5kg Pilsner (2 row)
1.0kg Dark Wheat
0.5kg Acid Malt
8g Citra FWH
22g Citra @ 15min
28g Citra @ 0min
Danstar Belle Saison

63*C for 40min
71*C for 15min

60min boil

Ferm 2 weeks at 22*C

 

[Liam_snorkel]

I've done some in the low 4% range, generally awesome. Just bump up the mash temp to account for less grain.

 

[BrewedCrudeandBitter]

We brewed a saison using the Wyeast French saison recently and used a bouquet garni of herbs (think Scarborough Fair) along with a lot of Amarillo in the cube and citra dry hop.

We were a bit sceptical on the herbs but the finished beer was the best thing we had done. Really dry and spicy and way more herby than we thought it would be but not overpowering. Although as it's aged the herbs seem to come out more and a stronger lemon flavour is immediately present.

The yeast was an absolute beast. Fermented down to 1001 in about 4 days.

 

[gap]

Just made my first Saison two weeks ago. It smells and tastes really good, nice and fruity (citrus and apricot like), ever so slightly sour (is best way to describe it), but I think I ruined it during milling. It has a husk aftertaste which doesn't stop you putting it down the trap, but leaves a VB sort of taste on the palette after a breathe or two. It's currently in the secondary and will likely be there for about 6 weeks. It's only my 3rd All-Grain home brew, so I'm just playing and understand the ingredients and process a bit better. First time I've milled myself too, so assuming slower speed next time.

Original Gravity (OG): 1.42 (Measured)
Final Gravity (FG): 1.002 (Measured)
Alcohol (ABV): 5.2 % (Measured)
Colour (EBC): 12.9
Bitterness (IBU): 26.8
Batch 23L

3.5kg Pilsner (2 row)
1.0kg Dark Wheat
0.5kg Acid Malt
8g Citra FWH
22g Citra @ 15min
28g Citra @ 0min
Danstar Belle Saison

63*C for 40min
71*C for 15min

60min boil

Ferm 2 weeks at 22*C

No wonder it tastes a bit sour with 500g of Acidulated malt in a 23 L brew.

 

[heyhey]

No wonder it tastes a bit sour with 500g of Acidulated malt in a 23 L brew.

I was wanting it a little more sour than it is. But it's pretty good.

 

[mofox1]

I was wanting it a little more sour than it is. But it's pretty good.

Interesting that 10% acidulated didn't affect the mash...

 

[heyhey]

Interesting that 10% acidulated didn't affect the mash...

How would it have affected the mash?

EDIT: That should've been 2.0kg of Dark Wheat Malt, not 1. So Acid is <10%, but still high

 

[mje1980]

By affecting the ph of the mash ( I believe it drops the mash ph ). 2% is commonly recommended as enough to drop ph levels. Others will know more than me

 

[peekaboo_jones]

I recently had a home brew Saison. One word: Amazing, the best beer I've ever had. I was given this Saison from my sister in-law, whom got it from a work colleague.
Is it anyone from here? Great brew!

 

[Tahoose]

After explaining the style to a guy at work a couple of hours ago. I was in the mood for a Saison tonight. Going down a treat.

Think I'll have to take him a bottle of this..

 

[Cocko]

Wolfman says - "Anyone can brew a Saison.."

HA!

 

[hwall95]

Update on my rye saison: I bottled it around a week ago and thought I'd give it a try.



It ended up finishing at 1.008 since I mashed a little high, then gave it a quick cold crash and bottled. It came out really clear despite the young age but it may have something to do with the fact the yeast is second gen and the first gen I didn't cold crash so really only collected the yeast that flocculated easily.

Taste wise I've found it similar to DuPont but with an added ryeness to it. Although the even though it's currently carbonated and 15% wheat it won't hold a head well... One day I will figure it out. Now to store the rest away for at least a month before next tasting...

 

[Simdop]

I got inspired by this thread so I've got a saison going as well. Very simple grain bill using the 3711. It finished at 1.002 and I'e racked it onto 2kg of yellow peaches that it is currently enjoying.

Will update you all when I have a final product!

 

[heyhey]

My first Saison, has come out a bit average, so I've done a different one and even with no acid malt has a pretty average taste. Has anyone else used the Belle Saison dry yeast from Danstar? It's the only common thing between my two different Saison batches and they taste similar and not really great IMO. Do Saisons need to mature for long periods of time?

 

[Killer Brew]

I have used it and was really pleased with the taste. Have another ready to go for my next partial. I didn't keep it any longer in the fermenter but did make sure it was at a high temp of minimum 24 degrees.

 

[heyhey]

Well it's been two months and the first one has come 'good' or at least drinkable. It's not really to style, but not far off, but I reckon another month or two to mature it'll be fine. The acid malt is still present, but not a great deal, the yeast seems to provide an odd sour flavour that lingers as my second has the same sour characteristic. The second it still too young, it's tart and once it matures a bit more, I'll blend them as I reckon I can get it to style without much hassle.

 

[indica86]

Has anyone else used the Belle Saison dry yeast from Danstar?

Belle has a very big flavour, it tends to dominate all around it.

 

[heyhey]

Yeah, I can't really say I'm fond of it. Very overpowering compared to Saisons I've tried

 

[peekaboo_jones]

Interesting, I've heard mixed stories too. What would be the pick of dry yeasts for a Saison, if not the Danstar?

 

[anthonyUK]

I preferred the MJ M27 Belgian ale over the Danstar Belle.
I wasn't as sour and if you start it low you get a good Belgian ester spiciness without the overpowering bubblegum/solventy ones.

That said the sourness of the Belle does fade well and after 2-3 months is much nicer.

 

[goatchop41]

I preferred the MJ M27 Belgian ale over the Danstar Belle.
I wasn't as sour and if you start it low you get a good Belgian ester spiciness without the overpowering bubblegum/solventy ones.

That said the sourness of the Belle does fade well and after 2-3 months is much nicer.

How low are we talking, seeing as though MJ recommend keeping it between 24-30°C?
I made a hybrid/faux saison with MO instead of pilsner and used the M27, started at 25°C and let it free rise to ~29-30°C. It is weird, I didn't get even a slight hint of what I would call Belgian/saison yeast flavour (spiciness/pepperiness or phenols). Even 3 months down the track now and it hasn't changed. I know the MO is partly to blame for covering some of the yeast flavour, but it still isn't what I expected