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Storing Bulk Wort for Yeast Starters

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Mat

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Hey Brewers,

I'm between brew days, so naturally I'm thinking about my next brew and how I can make my life a little easier.
I'm a big believer in the mantra "work smarter, not harder"
With that in mind, I'm looking at storing unfermented wort to use in yeast starters, along the lines of a "plain" fresh wort kit.
Ideally this would allow me to create starters in <5mins (the time it takes to sanitise the equipment I'm going to use) basically eliminating the mini brew and chill for every starter.

Here's the steps I would be taking

Brew up a 19L batch of wort
- Light DME
- 15min Boil
- SG ~1.036
- Transfer to sanitised and CO2 purged keg
- Store keg <4C
- Use picnic tap type setup to transfer wort to starter vessel (everything sanitised)

Maybe the inclusion of some hops to like 5-10 IBUs for antibacterial purposes?
What would the shelf life be? the same as beer?

From what I've found online, some people talk about Botulism and use pressure cookers and canning setups to counter this.

I'm hoping someone might have some insight on how FWK are produced, in particular if they get a pressurised heat treatment. If not, maybe this is a viable method.

Looking forward to peoples thoughts on this idea.

Cheers,
Mat
 

Wobbly74

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FWK is made the same as a no chill cube, so easiest way would be to get some 2L HDPE containers, boil up some wort, dump it into them at 90C+, squeeze the remaining air out and cap them tightly. Should last quite a while, as a no chill cube does...
 

sp0rk

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God daaaaaaamn
Will ask a mate who has a Plasdene account to get a quote next time he does an order
Will also be trying to get some of the cube lids with taps in them
 

peterlonz

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Hey guys, keep it simple.
According to the advice I received from Fermentis there is no need to make starters.
They should know.
 

EmptyB

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I don't know what you mean lax, I think the vendor does know best. I'd better go check that kit & kilo lager which the vendor recommended I ferment at (up to) 25C.
 

sp0rk

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I don't know what you mean lax, I think the vendor does know best. I'd better go check that kit & kilo lager which the vendor recommended I ferment at (up to) 25C.
Pretty sure Woolies kit cans say to ferment from 25-30...
 

goatchop41

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I don't know what you mean lax, I think the vendor does know best. I'd better go check that kit & kilo lager which the vendor recommended I ferment at (up to) 25C.
Fermentis now make it pretty clear on their website that they recommend dry pitching.
I completely get where you're coming from with the instructions for some homebrewing stuff being aimed at the lowest common denominator, but Fermentis now give pretty good detail as to why it isn't necessary - they're obviously confident enough now that their drying process stores enough lipids in the yeast that they don't need to be rehydrated in water, or need additional O2
 

EmptyB

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Fermentis now make it pretty clear on their website that they recommend dry pitching.
I completely get where you're coming from with the instructions for some homebrewing stuff being aimed at the lowest common denominator, but Fermentis now give pretty good detail as to why it isn't necessary - they're obviously confident enough now that their drying process stores enough lipids in the yeast that they don't need to be rehydrated in water, or need additional O2
Fair point about rehydration/O2, I won't comment on that as I haven't done the research; the point was made earlier about not needing to make a starter though, and for many brewers the cell count of a single packet isn't considered to be enough.

My point was that vendors aren't necessarily prioritising quality above all else. They're also gunning for simplicity of use; back to the kit & kilo reference, if manufacturers got specific in temperature requirements, they'd ostracise customers who simply don't want to implement temperature control and their beers fermented way above ideal temperature taste just fine to them. It's often not as simple as trusting the vendor because they "know what they're doing" - they probably do, but they widen their recommendations for the sake of simplicity, at the cost of quality.
 

altone

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Fair point about rehydration/O2, I won't comment on that as I haven't done the research; the point was made earlier about not needing to make a starter though, and for many brewers the cell count of a single packet isn't considered to be enough.

My point was that vendors aren't necessarily prioritising quality above all else. They're also gunning for simplicity of use; back to the kit & kilo reference, if manufacturers got specific in temperature requirements, they'd ostracise customers who simply don't want to implement temperature control and their beers fermented way above ideal temperature taste just fine to them. It's often not as simple as trusting the vendor because they "know what they're doing" - they probably do, but they widen their recommendations for the sake of simplicity, at the cost of quality.
It would be nice though if they added a simple statement suggesting an optimum temp. They could even do something like "Advanced brewers may want to ferment at the optimum of 18C" or whatever.
That way new brewers can simply ignore the advanced brewer suggestion.

What do I know, I've only got an Ass Dip, in marketing and I'm pretty sure you get a pass on that for completing the course :)
 

EmptyB

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It would be nice though if they added a simple statement suggesting an optimum temp. They could even do something like "Advanced brewers may want to ferment at the optimum of 18C" or whatever.
That way new brewers can simply ignore the advanced brewer suggestion.

What do I know, I've only got an Ass Dip, in marketing and I'm pretty sure you get a pass on that for completing the course :)
The way I figure it, if a yeast specified an optimum temperature that requires investment ie a fermentation fridge, some brewers not willing to do their research would opt for an alternative yeast with no such optimum; their interpretation being that any temp within the range (ie 25-30C for the home brand tins) is "optimal" by default. At least that's what the marketing team might be thinking.. reality may be a different story
 

altone

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The way I figure it, if a yeast specified an optimum temperature that requires investment ie a fermentation fridge, some brewers not willing to do their research would opt for an alternative yeast with no such optimum; their interpretation being that any temp within the range (ie 25-30C for the home brand tins) is "optimal" by default. At least that's what the marketing team might be thinking.. reality may be a different story
You are probably right, as consumers we are so used to the dumbing down of everything it's the norm.
That and statements like "low fat" and "diet" or actually "90% fat free" - so it's 10% fat but people only see the fat free part.
The worst one I've seen is "Diet water" in Japan and China. WTF?
 

Wobbly74

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Hey guys, keep it simple.
According to the advice I received from Fermentis there is no need to make starters.
They should know.
? Not sure what fermentis specifically has to do with it. If you're buying $15 liquid yeast with half the cell count of dry yeast or wanting to build up a starter for a lager then it seems like a good idea...
 

Mat

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Thanks for the feedback guys, good to know I wont be catching the plague or anything from doing it.

The 2L Jerry cans look to be a good option, but i really do like stainless...

Can anyone foresee any issues if I do go with using a keg instead?
I'd be kegging straight from BK at 90+, so the only thing i can think of is that I'd need to make sure I equalise the keg with co2 during the cool down to avoid Oxygen forcing its way in when the wort contracts that little bit.
 
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