Stepped starter that won't flocc

[Spiesy]

Hey everyone,

Got an interesting one here... I'm making a brew with some old White Labs WLP570 Golden Ale Yeast, the yeast is down to 6% viability, so I was planning on making a 1L into 2L stepped starter to ramp the numbers up to where they need to be.

Made the 1L starter, on the stir plate for 24-hours. Looked like it did it's thing (small krausen, colour lightened significantly).
Put it in the keg fridge at 4-degrees for 12-hours. Open the fridge this morning - the yeast has not flocculated at all (570 is known for having poor flocc qualities).
I don't want to leave the starter in the fridge for days upon days, further decimating my yeast population - so I decided to just make another 1L starter, decant the lot into that, and then maybe decant the whole 2L into my 21L batch Belgian.

Certainly not ideal. I usually like to pour off the spend wort. I might try refrigerating the 2L starter over the weekend to see if it will flocc at all. At the very worst I'll be able to at least get rid of some dead yeasties.

Anyone else had issues with low floccing yeast and starters? Any work arounds?

 

[Yob]

1lt starter may have been a bit big for a first step? if you have some mutation, you may have spawned some petite mutants and they can have trouble floccing.. What was the gravity of the starter?

absolutely no exp. with that yeast though so not sure about it's characteristics at all.

 

[Spiesy]

1lt starter may have been a bit big for a first step? if you have some mutation, you may have spawned some petite mutants and they can have trouble floccing.. What was the gravity of the starter?

1037.

Yeah, to be honest, I rarely use yeast that aren't big floccers - in fact, the only starter I've made for a yeast that wasn't a high flocculator was for 005, which possesses medium flocc characteristics.

 

[Camo6]

Can you check the SG of the starter now? Maybe it hadn't finished fermenting. 24hrs might not have been enough time for the tired little buggers. Still, you'd expect a dusting on the bottom of the flask at the very least, yeah?

 

[SmallFry]

At that age, the calculated viability is probably +/- 50% variance, so realistically you're looking at anywhere as low as 3% viability. It could just be that the more survivable mutations to that strain are the less flocculant ones.

For the sake of the work involved in a batch of wort, I'd be pitching nice, fresh yeast, even if it is a different strain. It's a good excuse to try out another strain. You do have access to a good source of fresh yeast, amiright?

Edit: clarity

 

[Camo6]

I heard he can get it at cost.

 

[dammag]

Could the yeast need some more calcium in the starter wort to help them floc?

 

[Tex083]

I read the yeast book by Chris White back in May so I may be a bit out but I would think a smaller step with a lower gravity would have been needed. Was the yeast collected or a fresh vial? If it was collected you can put selective pressure on floc V non floc yeast of the same strain.

 

[2much2spend]

Might be beyond saving! $10-$13 a vial is probably better than dumping a whole batch.
IMO!

 

[Spiesy]

Can you check the SG of the starter now? Maybe it hadn't finished fermenting. 24hrs might not have been enough time for the tired little buggers. Still, you'd expect a dusting on the bottom of the flask at the very least, yeah?

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Shouldn't rush beer, huh? Normally I don't, but I've let stocks slide a little with the little tacker now on the scene.

For the sake of the work involved in a batch of wort, I'd be pitching nice, fresh yeast, even if it is a different strain. It's a good excuse to try out another strain. You do have access to a good source of fresh yeast, amiright?

I was trying out a new strain with this. Just thought I'd offload some older FP stock and make a starter - but lesson learnt, should only do this when I have the time to do it right.

I read the yeast book by Chris White back in May so I may be a bit out but I would think a smaller step with a lower gravity would have been needed. Was the yeast collected or a fresh vial? If it was collected you can put selective pressure on floc V non floc yeast of the same strain.

I own and have read said book too. But, I have a mind like a sieve and was rushing a little... tsk tsk

Might be beyond saving! $10-$13 a vial is probably better than dumping a whole batch.
IMO!

Yep. I agree.

 

[Mardoo]

If I'm doing a starter from a low viability vial I always go 500 to 1000 to 2000 and haven't had problems with growth - low-flocc'ing and character shift I can't speak to as I don't have enough experience with one strain.

 

[Dan2]

As others have mentioned - probably too big a 1st step.
May have needed a lot longer to get through the lag phase and populate the starter.