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Step Mash Vs Single Infusion

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Crusty

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I am just curious wether to do a 3 or 4 step mash on my next APA or stick with the usual, simple single infusion.
Is there any advantage in stepping the mash for this beer?
I have full temp control with the PID & Rims so no hassle to programme it all in.
If it will make a difference to the final product, I'm willing to give it a go.
Great results with single infusion so maybe not worth it for this beer.
( step temps / times, etc. )
 

alfadog

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I am just curious wether to do a 3 or 4 step mash on my next APA or stick with the usual, simple single infusion.
Is there any advantage in stepping the mash for this beer?
I have full temp control with the PID & Rims so no hassle to programme it all in.
If it will make a difference to the final product, I'm willing to give it a go.
Great results with single infusion so maybe not worth it for this beer.
( step temps / times, etc. )
I think the step mash is from the days of old where the malting process was not so good, If there are not too many adjuncts, like corn or wheat, and your beer is hop driven then I would not bother myself. It may increase efficiency a touch but I have not really looked into this angle.

my 2c
 

manticle

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Step mashing is great and has results that go beyond just whether malt is modified or not.

However APA is one of the few beers I'm still pretty much single infusion for.

Try it in a beer that has less going on (and is maybe more the kind of style you'd expect it in) then see if you reckon translating to apa or aipa is worth it.

If you like belgian beers, try a multi step in one of those and see what you think.
 

Thefatdoghead

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Hey Crusty this is my mash schedule for a Imperial IPA I just made.


EMP: 53/66/72/78
TIME: 5/70/10/10

Not the same style but i'll let you know how it goes. To be honest iv'e only tried single infusion on 1 beer since I got the Braumeister, it was Ross's nelson summer ale and it turned out great mouthfeel wise and very lovely fruity aroma. One of the better beers iv'e made so next time i'll step mash it and see what happens. Interested to hear your results if you do a step mash.
Great to hear your brewing again mate!
Gav
 

Tony

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Modern malting processes just ensure a faster and more complete conversion. It doesnt change the fact that you can control the profile of the beer by mashing at different temps.

Enzymes still do the same stuff they did way back when.........

APA is not a beer that really needs a complex mash program but a short 10 min protein rest at 52 to 55, a coolish mash at 64 to 66 and a high mash rest for 10 to 15 min in the low 70's will give you a very good beer.

The step mash helps ensure you get complete conversion, can help get better efficiency and attenuation and can reduce chill haze.

I have not single infused im many years and would not go back.

cheers
 

Crusty

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Try a decoction just for the hell of it.
No thanks.



Hey Crusty this is my mash schedule for a Imperial IPA I just made.


EMP: 53/66/72/78
TIME: 5/70/10/10

Not the same style but i'll let you know how it goes. To be honest iv'e only tried single infusion on 1 beer since I got the Braumeister, it was Ross's nelson summer ale and it turned out great mouthfeel wise and very lovely fruity aroma. One of the better beers iv'e made so next time i'll step mash it and see what happens. Interested to hear your results if you do a step mash.
Great to hear your brewing again mate!
Gav
Thanks Gav.
Will probably be doing a brew on the weekend on the new Rims setup.
Have been playing around with the PID, step programming, ramping temps etc. Pretty quick ramp times with the Rims tube, very happy with it.
I'll let you know how it compares to the single infusion I used previously.


Modern malting processes just ensure a faster and more complete conversion. It doesnt change the fact that you can control the profile of the beer by mashing at different temps.

Enzymes still do the same stuff they did way back when.........

APA is not a beer that really needs a complex mash program but a short 10 min protein rest at 52 to 55, a coolish mash at 64 to 66 and a high mash rest for 10 to 15 min in the low 70's will give you a very good beer.

The step mash helps ensure you get complete conversion, can help get better efficiency and attenuation and can reduce chill haze.

I have not single infused im many years and would not go back.

cheers
Thanks Tony.
I think I will step mash this one. I know it's not essential for an APA but it will be good to compare the final results. My simple single infusions have been awesome on the old rig but now that I have the ability to control the process more precisely, I am keen to make use of the PID's capabilities. I will probably gain some extra efficiency points as well so why not?
Cheers mate.
 

mckenry

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On a side note - not completely off topic.

I like to step mash. Was easy with Beersmith.
Now I use Brewmate as Beersmith has buggered up for me. Cant see ingredients window when opening recipe. Read all the help about deleting a certain file etc, but it still aint workin...
So when BS2 came out and I had to pay again, I thought stuff it and went with Brewmate.

Brewmate doesnt allow step mash as far as I can see? Nor does it allow for sparging in two (or more) lots either? I have read plenty of Brewmate threads btw. Maybe not enough?

Dont want to derail thread, so any yes/no answers would be good.
 

Crusty

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On a side note - not completely off topic.

I like to step mash. Was easy with Beersmith.
Now I use Brewmate as Beersmith has buggered up for me. Cant see ingredients window when opening recipe. Read all the help about deleting a certain file etc, but it still aint workin...
So when BS2 came out and I had to pay again, I thought stuff it and went with Brewmate.

Brewmate doesnt allow step mash as far as I can see? Nor does it allow for sparging in two (or more) lots either? I have read plenty of Brewmate threads btw. Maybe not enough?

Dont want to derail thread, so any yes/no answers would be good.
I have BS2 & Beer Tools Pro.
I use BTP exclusively now, awesome programme.
 

Nick JD

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I find that the key difference step mashing (and slightly moreso decoction mashing) from a single sacc rest is resting it at both sweet spots for the amylases and the subsequent affect on attenuation while retaining body and mouthfeel.

Resting at 62C and then 72C creates a wort quite different to one rested at 66C only. Especially in big beers that tend to have underattenuation issues.

The rests down low can be skipped with out much change (40s and 50s).
 

Crusty

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I find that the key difference step mashing (and slightly moreso decoction mashing) from a single sacc rest is resting it at both sweet spots for the amylases and the subsequent affect on attenuation while retaining body and mouthfeel.

Resting at 62C and then 72C creates a wort quite different to one rested at 66C only. Especially in big beers that tend to have underattenuation issues.

The rests down low can be skipped with out much change (40s and 50s).
Creating a different beer at those step temps!
Do you find it better than a simple single infusion @66deg?
What times do you do those temps at?
I'm pretty keen to do a bit of experimenting.
 

matho

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hey crusty,

do a step mash because can :beerbang:

cheers
 

zebba

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I always mash in at 55 for 10. I feel it is easier to get rid of dough balls with a thicker mash, and I believe the final product has a tighter head.

I freely accept that these perceptions may be all in my head.
 

Nick JD

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Creating a different beer at those step temps!
Do you find it better than a simple single infusion @66deg?
What times do you do those temps at?
I'm pretty keen to do a bit of experimenting.
Probably best to give this a read as I'll be regurgitating it anyway. Principles are similar whether you infuse or add heat. Focus on the Hochkurz "high-short" stuff. You get a highly fermentable wort with lots of dextrins. From a commercial pov that's important.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing
 

Crusty

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hey crusty,

do a step mash because can :beerbang:

cheers
Too right. This temp control thing is pretty exciting. Lovin it so far & that's just with water. :beerbang:


There is some discussion of different beers from different mashing schedules to be found here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry873740
Cheers mate,
Will look through that.


I always mash in at 55 for 10. I feel it is easier to get rid of dough balls with a thicker mash, and I believe the final product has a tighter head.

I freely accept that these perceptions may be all in my head.
Thanks mate.
I am looking at a thinner mash, 3.75l/kg due to the Rims setup. I want to avoid a stuck mash at all costs.


Probably best to give this a read as I'll be regurgitating it anyway. Principles are similar whether you infuse or add heat. Focus on the Hochkurz "high-short" stuff. You get a highly fermentable wort with lots of dextrins. From a commercial pov that's important.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing
Cheers JD.
Will look through that as well.

Thanks guys.
 

manticle

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If you're keen try it out.

As I said, APA is one of the few beers I don't really do it for but that's because most of my step mashing regimes involve 2 steps in the 60s plus other steps outside on both ends. With APA, I pick one 60s rest but still go to 72 for glycoprotein and later mash out (so I guess that's a step mash).


Most European beers for me go

TEMP: 55/62-64/67-68/72/78
TIME: 5/10 -30/50-20/10/10

The ranges in the sacch rest region depend on the final profile - longer low rest for drier, longer high rest for malty. As Nick says - attenuative wort is to be had but you can balance that with the thicker, maltier mouthfeel of a beer mashed higher.
 

Crusty

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Thanks for the tips.
You guys don't stir the mash at all when step mashing do you?
Just put your times into the PID & let it go through the step schedule.
 

SJW

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sorry to fire up an old thread, but I came accross it while reseaching multi step v single infusion mashing.
One thing I also noticed since using the Braumeister is the tightness of the beer head. I have been doing a short rest at 55 then then raising the mash to 62 then 72 then 78. I recently went back to a single infusion type mash and my efficiency went way down.
So I say if you have a RIMS type system go the multi step....just because you can :)

Steve
 

Adr_0

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Old thread fired up again...

I've seen a bit about Hochkurz and variations, essentially spending 30-75min in the beta amylase range to maximise/govern fermentability, then a rest typically 68-72°C with the minimum time governed by starch conversion - 20-30min? - and held longer for more mouthfeel.

That's all fine.

But, trying this in Beersmith 2 seems to give particularly high FG's, right on the bottom end (or below) typical attenuation for the yeast. As an e.g. in Beersmith, a 62°(45min), 69°C(20min) + 76°C(10min) profile yields a FG of 1.013 (OG 1.048) with 34/70, yielding an expected attenuation of 73%, which is well below what one would expect with this yeast (high 70's, 80%), i.e. something 1.010 or even below.

What have people observed, do you ignore Beersmith for a while with these (Hochkurz) mashes, or am I doing something wrong?
 

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