Steeping recipe calls for mash-only malts. What gives?

[AzfromOz]

Hi,

I'm looking at a recipe for a Hopfen Weiss from the book, "The Complete Homebrew Beer Book," by George Hummel (2011). The recipe is an extract with specialty grains, and it contains hops that I already have in my freezer, hence the interest.

Problem is, the grains it wants steeped are pilsner malt, light wheat malt (which I assume is the same as pale wheat malt) and carapils/carafoam. It wants the grains steeped for half an hour at 65 - 71 degrees. Everything I look at tells me those are mash-only grains (and I think the same for carapils, but not carafoam), and furthermore, the pilsner malt needs a 90-minute boil to remove any possibility of DMS in the beer. The recipe calls for a 60-minute boil, and uses 3.6kg of wheat malt extract.

Is there any point steeping these grains, given it appears none of the sugars in the malt will be converted during the steep?
Even if there is a point in steeping, is a 60-minute boil sufficient for whatever is extracted from the pilsner malt? Is this a dud recipe?

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Steeping = Mashing

Boiling those grains wont achieve anything

 

[Adr_0]

Yeah, they need to be mashed.

Any chance of getting a hold of some good pils and wheat extract, and just steeping a few hundred grams of carapils - or whatever you want to call holding for 20-30min at 60-70°C?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Hi,

I'm looking at a recipe for a Hopfen Weiss from the book, "The Complete Homebrew Beer Book," by George Hummel (2011). The recipe is an extract with specialty grains, speciality grains are grains like Crystal/Xtal, Choc malt, Roast Barley, Cara range etc.. Pilsner,Ale,Lager,Wheat malts are all base malts that need mashing. Speciality malts require mashing in with the base grains or steeping in cold or hot water overnight. Speciality grains contain flavours from the kilning process so steeping them for long periods draws out these flavours. Steeping IS NOT mashing and it contains hops that I already have in my freezer, hence the interest.

What you are making is a partial brew. A mix of extract and All Grain brewing

Problem is, the grains it wants steeped mashed are pilsner malt, light wheat malt (which I assume is the same as pale wheat malt) and carapils/carafoam. It wants the grains steeped mashed for half an hour to an hour at 65 - 71 degrees. Everything I look at tells me those are mash-only grains Correct (and I think the same for carapils, but not carafoam), and furthermore, the pilsner malt needs a 90-minute boil to remove any possibility of DMS in the beer forget that bit about the 90min boil. DMS will be taken care of in the 60min boil. The recipe calls for a 60-minute boil, and uses 3.6kg of wheat malt extract. Correct. Basically this is the hop addition and boil step of AG brewing. Follow advice with regard to the hop schedule. This stepp removes DMS

Is there any point steeping mashing these grains, given it appears none of the sugars in the malt will be converted during the steep?
The whole idea of mashing is to convert the grain starch into sugargghhhhhs me hearty. Mashing is essential for sugar conversion

Even if there is a point in steeping, is a 60-minute boil sufficient for whatever is extracted from the pilsner malt? Is this a dud recipe?
Just boiling the grains will give you a starchy water of no value whatsoever and kill any enzymes in the grain that are repsonsible for starch --> sugar conversion

Any advice appreciated.

Read up on the following

Base malt
Mashing
Lautering/sparging
Partial brewing
Speciality grains
Steeping grains ( as opposed to mashing )
All Grain brewing

Cheers!

No probs. Just read up a bit and ask some more questions. We will have you on the slippery downhill slop that is brewing in no time

 

[AzfromOz]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

To be clear, I certainly wasn't intending to boil the grains, so my apologies if what I wrote made that unclear. I'll be boiling the liquid left over once the mashing process is complete.

So just to be clear - and I will read the info listed in the above post - mashing those base malts for 30 minutes (or 60 as per above) at 65 - 71 degrees on my stove top will in fact convert a good percentage of the starch into fermentable sugars?

(and Ducatiboy Stu, I'm already well and truly on that slope! )

Cheers

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Go into the All Grain section and look up mashing BEFORE you do anything with that involves grain

 

[pablo_h]

Mashing and steeping are the same physical process are they not?
65-67C water steeping.
Mashing is called mashing because the process involves getting sugars out of the grain.
Steeping is what you do with "specialty malts", it's just steeping though, as you aren't unlocking sugars, the sugars have been made available by the roasting the grain went through.
IE mashing is doing a chemical change; steeping it just, well, steeping and extracting flavour (sugars are already there available).
But to the end user, the process is the same, soak in 65-67C water for 30-60min.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Technically you could say they are the same

Mashing is done at specific temps and times.

Steeping is more general

Mashing is a form of steeping, but steeping is not always mashing

 

[Droopy Brew]

If you put the grains in the water between 65 and 71 as described in the recipe for 30 minutes then yes it is a mash. There isnt much to it. 30 minutes at saccharification temps will extract most of the sugars. Giving it a bit longer will get a bit more but probably not a great deal. Of course, ensure the grains are crushed and you can remove them (assuming you are using a grain bag or hop sock??).

Follow the recipe and you will be fine.

 

[wobbly]

Here is a good read about the functions of mashing and steeping

http://byo.com/malt/item/1582-what-exactly-is-the-difference-between-mashing-and-steeping?-don%E2%80%99t-both-procedures-basically-involve-soaking-grain-in-hot-water?

You will note in the article that water to grain ratio isn't as important with steeping as mashing. With mashing a value of up to 4lt per kg is stated where as with steeping it can be as high as 12lt per kg

With steeping all you need to do is soak out the sugars already converted where as with mashing you need to convert the starch to sugar and the thickness of the mash impacts on the ability of the various enzymes to do their work. Not sure how all this sits with full volume mashing though.

Post number 15 in this article offers a bit more to the jig saw puzzle in that depending on the temperature you mash at will determine the fermentability of the resultant wort where as temperature doesn't play the same role in steeping provided it isn't too high to the point that you start to extract tannin's from the grain husk. Some brewers soak their specialty grains particularly dark/roasted malt in cold water for long periods/overnight

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/steeping-vs-mashing.22506/

Wobbly

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

This is also a good read

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mash_ingredients

 

[Nizmoose]

Basically that recipe is asking you to steep them but asking you to do it in a specific temperature range because as you said some are base malts and the only difference between mashing and steeping is that the mash is temp dependant to an extent, you could steep something and not mash it if you mash something you are steeping it, just at a set temperature (hopefully!) I suspect the book has used steep and given temp requirements instead of using the mash terminology to avoid too much fear and confusion among brewers new to the hobby