Steeping Grain How Much Liquid?

[dirty mac]

Hey guys, For my next brew I'm thinking about doing a dark ale (guiness type) and I want to steep some grains. My first question is how do I know which grains to buy for steeping? as I read someone bought grain that had to be mashed and they steeped it instead. Secondly if I'm doing 500gm how much liquid should I use? (no need to go through the process as I've been a good boy and done my homework on that front).

 

[DJR]

Hey guys, For my next brew I'm thinking about doing a dark ale (guiness type) and I want to steep some grains. My first question is how do I know which grains to buy for steeping? as I read someone bought grain that had to be mashed and they steeped it instead. Secondly if I'm doing 500gm how much liquid should I use? (no need to go through the process as I've been a good boy and done my homework on that front).

Enough to cover the grain, in a medium size pot about 2L should be enough.

 

[dirty mac]

Hey guys, For my next brew I'm thinking about doing a dark ale (guiness type) and I want to steep some grains. My first question is how do I know which grains to buy for steeping? as I read someone bought grain that had to be mashed and they steeped it instead. Secondly if I'm doing 500gm how much liquid should I use? (no need to go through the process as I've been a good boy and done my homework on that front).

Enough to cover the grain, in a medium size pot about 2L should be enough.

Any ideas on what grains so I don't f it up and buy grains meant for a mash? :unsure:

 

[Adamt]

To mash or not to mash?

Chapter 13 describes how the steeping process works, just dodge the Imperial units.

 

[kitkat]

just to ask if 2L of steeped water later boiled and hopped can make that much of a difference on a 20-21 liters brew?

I haven't tried steeping yet, I'll probably give it a shot in a brew or two (got an extract and a specialty kit to do first), but I've been wondering at the impact that kind of relatively small quantity of grain/water can have on the brew.

I'll admit that a 1.7liters kit (+fermentables) is enough to make a 23 liters brew, but it's very concentrated, whereas the steeped grain would be at normal concentration and hence very diluted in 10 times the volume, no?

Just curious

Edit: as background I've been doing a few grumpy's and ESBs (3Kgs and fresh worts).

As another question, would steeping for a fresh wort kit or a 3Kgs kit be a waste of time as they would already have very defined characteristics?

 

[Weizguy]

G'day kitkat.

It would be helpful to know what grains you are steeping, as 500g is enough to severely alter and even ruin a brew.

For example 500g of burnt (black) grain might make a 23 litre batch undrinkably burnt-tasting. 500g of crystal is likely to overwhelm a beer too. So I hope the 500g is mixed grains.

I'd recommend that you post here before you make the brew, just in case.
Having said that, I steeped about a kilo of Dk English crystal for a beer. However, it was also OTT in Chinook hops and had on OG of 1.075. It was an Arrogant ******* clone. Horses 4 courses, eh?

Seth out

 

[blackbock]

To mash or not to mash?

Chapter 13 describes how the steeping process works, just dodge the Imperial units.

Having read this though, I note that Country Brewer is selling 500g packs of Maris Otter with instructions to steep in boiling water for an hour. I would assume that means water at 100 deg C, which sounds totally wrong to me.

I think this would be a "worst of both worlds" scenario. 100 degrees is way to hot to mash, and would probably cause astringency overload... And steeping a grain like this would add little to a brew.

What do you all reckon?

 

[kitkat]

Weizguy, I was just planning on following some recipe, for example one of the grain + grape recipes (in the extract/partial category), so I would not be coming up with quantities on my own That or a TCB wetpack, not sure yet.

Blackbock, FWIW, I've done a few grumpy's masterbrews and they boil some grains (no idea which as that's not specified) for 10 minutes, with excellent results

Grain+grape recipes for partial/extract advise to put grain in water, then very slowly bring to a boil (over 25-30 minutes), and remove just before boiling. I would now be tempted to stop at 65-70 degrees, but as far as I know G+G have a decent idea of what they're doing, no?

From what I gathered about the TCB wetpacks in another thread (I think in the supplier forum, where they advertised their oak ale?), they don't actually boil the grains for an hour, just ask to put them in hot water for an hour. Not sure about other recipes they may have, though.

 

[dirty mac]

G'day kitkat.

It would be helpful to know what grains you are steeping, as 500g is enough to severely alter and even ruin a brew.

For example 500g of burnt (black) grain might make a 23 litre batch undrinkably burnt-tasting. 500g of crystal is likely to overwhelm a beer too. So I hope the 500g is mixed grains.

I'd recommend that you post here before you make the brew, just in case.
Having said that, I steeped about a kilo of Dk English crystal for a beer. However, it was also OTT in Chinook hops and had on OG of 1.075. It was an Arrogant ******* clone. Horses 4 courses, eh?

Seth out

For kits, JP's book recommends to steep grains to freshen up the extract as it could of been sittin around for ages. Is 500g way too much? What is recomended to enhance the flavour in a kit based recipie?

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

The whole "steep in boiling (or more appropriately, boiled) water for an hour" thing seems to be to make it easy for people, just like the insanely high (but easily achievable) fermentation temperatures quoted on kit labels.

Put simply, if you fill a pot with boiling water, then dump in the grain and let it sit for an hour, the temperature will slowly go down, meaning that at some stage during that hour the correct temperature will have been reached and a reasonable quantity of sugars leached out to pep up a kit brew.

I suppose this would be easier for people who don't have the time or inclination to be constantly checking the temperature for anywhere between 30 and 90 minutes.

PZ.

 

[pint of lager]

Guidelines for steeping specialty grain.

100 gms roast malt in a stout or dark ale, can be called black or patent malt
150 grams of chocolate malt in a dark ale or stout
200 gms of crystal malt in any pale ale, dark ale or stout
150 gms carapils in a lager

This is for a standard brew of volume 23 litres and you will also need your standard kit and kilo of additives. All grains should be cracked, steeped in a litre of warm (40-60 degC) water for 30 minutes, strained, NO SQUEEZING THE GRAIN, grains thrown away, remaining wort simmered for 15 minutes and added to the fermenter with the rest of you kit and kilo.

Do not exceed these quantities of grain. If you brew this and like it, then, increase by 50%. This is definitely an area where too much will spoil a good thing.

While simmering, you can also add extra hops. Add some extra DME and a litre or two of water, 15 gms of your favourite hop and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add another 15 gms of hop and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add another 15 gms of hops, simmer for 2 minutes, cover with lid, turn off, chill in sink by standing in a few litres cold water, change the water to chill the saucepan, strain contents to fermenter and add your kit and kilo.

Do not use high alpha hops such as Pride of Ringwood, super alpha or cluster. Boiling 15 gms of high alpha hops for 20 minutes will impart too much bitterness. Use hops such as Fuggles or goldings in ales and hallertau, tettnang or saaz in lagers. If you wish to use POR, delete the first hop addition that is boiled for 20 minutes.

Adding some specialty grain and hops will really improve all kits.

Do not use base grains such as pale ale, schooner, sloop, smoked, amber malt, Munich, Vienna, wheat, lager or pilsner. These need mashing at 65 deg C rather than just steeping at 40-60 degrees. If you try and steep these grains, you will only get starch which will not help your brew.

Do not boil grains unless you are doing a decoction which is advanced mashing. Boiling extracts tannins which is nasty. Steep the specialty grains, strain and then boil the resulting solution.

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

too much bitterness

Heresy! h34r:

Seriously though, some good advice there (aside from the bitterness thing ).

PZ.

 

[dirty mac]

Guidelines for steeping specialty grain.

100 gms roast malt in a stout or dark ale, can be called black or patent malt
150 grams of chocolate malt in a dark ale or stout
200 gms of crystal malt in any pale ale, dark ale or stout
150 gms carapils in a lager

This is for a standard brew of volume 23 litres and you will also need your standard kit and kilo of additives. All grains should be cracked, steeped in a litre of warm (40-60 degC) water for 30 minutes, strained, NO SQUEEZING THE GRAIN, grains thrown away, remaining wort simmered for 15 minutes and added to the fermenter with the rest of you kit and kilo.

Do not exceed these quantities of grain. If you brew this and like it, then, increase by 50%. This is definitely an area where too much will spoil a good thing.

While simmering, you can also add extra hops. Add some extra DME and a litre or two of water, 15 gms of your favourite hop and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add another 15 gms of hop and simmer for 10 minutes.
Add another 15 gms of hops, simmer for 2 minutes, cover with lid, turn off, chill in sink by standing in a few litres cold water, change the water to chill the saucepan, strain contents to fermenter and add your kit and kilo.

Do not use high alpha hops such as Pride of Ringwood, super alpha or cluster. Boiling 15 gms of high alpha hops for 20 minutes will impart too much bitterness. Use hops such as Fuggles or goldings in ales and hallertau, tettnang or saaz in lagers. If you wish to use POR, delete the first hop addition that is boiled for 20 minutes.

Adding some specialty grain and hops will really improve all kits.

Do not use base grains such as pale ale, schooner, sloop, smoked, amber malt, Munich, Vienna, wheat, lager or pilsner. These need mashing at 65 deg C rather than just steeping at 40-60 degrees. If you try and steep these grains, you will only get starch which will not help your brew.

Do not boil grains unless you are doing a decoction which is advanced mashing. Boiling extracts tannins which is nasty. Steep the specialty grains, strain and then boil the resulting solution.

TOO GOOD! Exactly what I was after. :super:

 

[Ross]

Having read this though, I note that Country Brewer is selling 500g packs of Maris Otter with instructions to steep in boiling water for an hour. I would assume that means water at 100 deg C, which sounds totally wrong to me.

You're right - It is totally wrong - I find it hard to believe that Country Brewer would advise this. They would mean to steep (mash) in 65c - 67c (not boiling) water for an hour. Are you sure you've read right??

cheers Ross

 

[kitkat]

thanks Ross for the excellent advice

 

[blackbock]

Having read this though, I note that Country Brewer is selling 500g packs of Maris Otter with instructions to steep in boiling water for an hour. I would assume that means water at 100 deg C, which sounds totally wrong to me.

You're right - It is totally wrong - I find it hard to believe that Country Brewer would advise this. They would mean to steep (mash) in 65c - 67c (not boiling) water for an hour. Are you sure you've read right??

cheers Ross

:huh:

Well, I did slightly misquote them, now that I check. What it actually says is: steep in boiling water for 10-20 mins, which is better, but still pretty poor instructions I think!

I still think that this would add little to even the worst kit tho...

BB

 

[floppinab]

This is for a standard brew of volume 23 litres and you will also need your standard kit and kilo of additives. All grains should be cracked, steeped in a litre of warm (40-60 degC) water for 30 minutes, strained, NO SQUEEZING THE GRAIN, grains thrown away, remaining wort simmered for 15 minutes and added to the fermenter with the rest of you kit and kilo.

What is the negative impact of squeezing the grain???

 

[DJR]

What is the negative impact of squeezing the grain???

Squeezes out the tannins which will make a harsh astringent flavour in the beer.

 

[floppinab]

Squeezes out the tannins which will make a harsh astringent flavour in the beer.

Hmmmm, be interesting to see the impact to my first steeping excercise of a few months back. Might be one to keep for myself.