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Starting a new 1BBL brewhouse with intention to scale & distribute.

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BURGO817

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Gday AHB,

Ive recently left the ADF and am hoping to turn my hand at 'pro brewing'.

Ive always home brewed off and on since high school and have made some pretty decent beers with my brother during those years etc. Friends, family, randoms and others also gave me genuine feedback, which was also positive.

I made a recent purchase from a winery in WA of a relatively complete (USED) Copper 1bbl brewhouse.

The purchased items included the following;

1x Mash Tun tank 100lts capacity

1 x Boiler electric boiler 220lts capacity

1x electric pump for hot water and mash transfer

1 x electric pump for cold water/beer transfer

1x plate filter with electric pump

1 x heat exchanger to cool down the beer before fermenters

2 x 200l variable fermenter tanks

1 lot pipe work to hook up tanks to pump etc


Id like to know from you brewers if you can see anything missing from this list that I should cut away or i will need to make this a less labour intensive exercise. Keep in mind that I'm not afraid of hard graft & am hoping of making a new career for myself in the process.

This is my first post and will be on here as often as possible.

Thanks for taking the time.
Cheers/
 
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BURGO817

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Obviously need a clean & polish but I think I did ok. If anything it'll make a good pilot system for the future...
 

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droid

somewhere on the slippery slope with a beer in han
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How is the mash-tun and kettle set up? Is it a working 2V system? I'd be thinking about the size of the mash-tun and loss in the kettle and fermenters to try and work out how much finished beer you can produce. It looks on the face of it like you can mash 100ltrs of finished beer, boil 180 ltrs finished beer and ferment 180ltrs of finished beer which is 3 commercial kegs with some left over. So the immediate issue I see is the size of the mash-tun compared to the kettle and FV's
Are you going to use 20ltr kegs or go 50ltrs?
 

BURGO817

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How is the mash-tun and kettle set up? Is it a working 2V system? I'd be thinking about the size of the mash-tun and loss in the kettle and fermenters to try and work out how much finished beer you can produce. It looks on the face of it like you can mash 100ltrs of finished beer, boil 180 ltrs finished beer and ferment 180ltrs of finished beer which is 3 commercial kegs with some left over. So the immediate issue I see is the size of the mash-tun compared to the kettle and FV's
Are you going to use 20ltr kegs or go 50ltrs?

Thanks for the reply.

Its currently on a truck heading across the Nullabour & haven't placed it yet. Excuse my newbieness but what is 2V?

I think id like to use 20lt kegs to begin with so I can spread it out to as many punters as possible & bottle the left overs. I have thought that my FV will limit my production initially due to the 100lt kettle & 400lt capacity. ill fill that in one week.
 

malt junkie

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The reason commercials use 50L kegs is the excise is cheaper (just so your aware).

2v is a 2 vessel brewing system, usually because the HLT (hot liquor tank) has has been replaced with an instant hot water system.

How are you planning to control fermentation temps?
 

droid

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too fast Malt J ^^^ see above ... hehe

2V essentially means Two Vessel. I don't know how your system works, there are excellent 2V systems out there.

If we can get some excise reform going there will be a place for the 20ltr keg. If you're a local brewer punching out fresh 20ltr kegs for Cafes and Bars it would be pretty good eh.

I love Brite tanks, SS Brewtech have 1BBL tanks - you could serve from the tank and fill kegs and growlers at will. It would give you some flexibility. If you can't control the temp of your FV's in a room you might need Glycol. I helped plumb a Glycol System for a 7BBL brew-house, there are things to consider about controlling temps on your FV's

How does the system make beer? Does it pump it all from Kettle to Mash and back? or are you missing a HLT?
 

MHB

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Actually commercial brewers don't count ancillary vessels, HLT, CLT... as part of the brewery, that's the preserve of home brewers intent on tank count inflation.
Only vessels that come in contact with the wort are counted, so Mash Tun, Lauter Tun (or Mash/Lauter Tun), Kettle and Whirlpool feature in the vessel count.
Without a lot more information than is available in the OP I would be reluctant to venture too many opinions, save to say that a good supply of hot water will be necessary, it could be an industrial instantaneous system, or even just a 300L+ storage HWS (I would think about a gas fired one).
From your other comments I would strongly advise you to talk to someone with some industry experience, if you don't it will cost you a lot more in the long run (or not so long). I don't know where you are setting up but where ever it is I'm sure there will be someone who can help you, ask around you local craft breweries, they will know who to talk to.
Mark
 

JDW81

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Actually commercial brewers don't count ancillary vessels, HLT, CLT... as part of the brewery, that's the preserve of home brewers intent on tank count inflation.k
Does that mean I can't count my hot water service at home as part of my brewery?
 

MHB

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You can count anything you like Salvador, just saying that Pro Brewers don't, so if someone buys a 2V commercial sys, they will probably be getting a Mash/Lauter Tun and a Kettle.
Mark
 

good4whatAlesU

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Great score Burgo

As droid mentioned you will definitely need a way to control fermentation temps. Glycol or maybe a little cool room to keep them in. I'd be on the look out for one of those little cool rooms they use have on the back of utes, see them second hand sometimes.

Edit: On second thoughts those fermenters would probably fit Ina big fridge? A couple big fridges would do the job.
 
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mckenry

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O/T.
You're 33 and reckon you've had a long career?. ;)

Send me your email address in a p.m. I can help you out.
 

BURGO817

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The reason commercials use 50L kegs is the excise is cheaper (just so your aware).

2v is a 2 vessel brewing system, usually because the HLT (hot liquor tank) has has been replaced with an instant hot water system.

How are you planning to control fermentation temps?

Thanks for the reply,

Thats true about the excise, I think initially I'm going to be charging for 'Tickets' for brew tours & give the beer away onsite, once I gain a bit of traction then up the ante to 20/50lt kegs. (cafes & corners). I have a refrigerated container thats fully piped & plumbed, pretty much a cool room etc. to control the temps etc.
 

Mardoo

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Depending on which state you're in your brew tour plan could be a problem. Some states view giving away free alcohol at a charged event very, very dimly. I wanted to do a similar thing and just couldn't find any way around it. Your best bet will be to talk to other commercial brewers. The brewing community is very supportive, and talking to folks who have already travelled the path of brewery setup and permitting will save you a lot of time, in terms of finding the information you need from the correct sources. Getting your permitting and taxation down correctly will be crucial to your success, and not getting big-ass fines or bans.
 

BURGO817

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too fast Malt J ^^^ see above ... hehe

2V essentially means Two Vessel. I don't know how your system works, there are excellent 2V systems out there.

If we can get some excise reform going there will be a place for the 20ltr keg. If you're a local brewer punching out fresh 20ltr kegs for Cafes and Bars it would be pretty good eh.

I love Brite tanks, SS Brewtech have 1BBL tanks - you could serve from the tank and fill kegs and growlers at will. It would give you some flexibility. If you can't control the temp of your FV's in a room you might need Glycol. I helped plumb a Glycol System for a 7BBL brew-house, there are things to consider about controlling temps on your FV's

How does the system make beer? Does it pump it all from Kettle to Mash and back? or are you missing a HLT?

Thanks for the reply,

Yeah I agree. we may as well be living in the prohibition days the way they scalp the average startup, hence most keep the AVB down, session etc.

Funny that you mentioned the SS brewtech 1BBL Brite, Its going to be my first purchase I think. those guys have a pretty decent range. I was in contact with one of them recently about that exact item. I will be able to control the temp but I also have a complete glycol system that was given to my brother by a CUB guy some years back when my family had an Irish pub. was worth about 25k about 10 years ago, thanks CUB. lol.

At this point before i actually take ownership of the gear I've purchased, I think the MashTun & the Lauter are all in one, which pumps out to the kettle.. I could be completely wrong though.. You guys will square me away no doubt.
 
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BURGO817

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Actually commercial brewers don't count ancillary vessels, HLT, CLT... as part of the brewery, that's the preserve of home brewers intent on tank count inflation.
Only vessels that come in contact with the wort are counted, so Mash Tun, Lauter Tun (or Mash/Lauter Tun), Kettle and Whirlpool feature in the vessel count.
Without a lot more information than is available in the OP I would be reluctant to venture too many opinions, save to say that a good supply of hot water will be necessary, it could be an industrial instantaneous system, or even just a 300L+ storage HWS (I would think about a gas fired one).
From your other comments I would strongly advise you to talk to someone with some industry experience, if you don't it will cost you a lot more in the long run (or not so long). I don't know where you are setting up but where ever it is I'm sure there will be someone who can help you, ask around you local craft breweries, they will know who to talk to.
Mark
Thanks for your reply.

Thats great advice and exactly what I intend to do. Once everything arrives I will be seeking professional assistance to get my first batch down. Costs are part of the experience, Im hoping to do this for the rest of my life.
 

BURGO817

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Great score Burgo

As droid mentioned you will definitely need a way to control fermentation temps. Glycol or maybe a little cool room to keep them in. I'd be on the look out for one of those little cool rooms they use have on the back of utes, see them second hand sometimes.

Edit: On second thoughts those fermenters would probably fit Ina big fridge? A couple big fridges would do the job.
Thanks for your reply,

Yeah I thought i was pretty lucky to score the system that I did. Im pretty certain it will be a great base to start from anyway. I have a refrigerated container for the temp control & a glycol system ready to go once i graduate to a tap house (fingers crossed)
 

BURGO817

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Depending on which state you're in your brew tour plan could be a problem. Some states view giving away free alcohol at a charged event very, very dimly. I wanted to do a similar thing and just couldn't find any way around it. Your best bet will be to talk to other commercial brewers. The brewing community is very supportive, and talking to folks who have already travelled the path of brewery setup and permitting will save you a lot of time, in terms of finding the information you need from the correct sources. Getting your permitting and taxation down correctly will be crucial to your success, and not getting big-ass fines or bans.
Thanks for your reply.

Yeah thats very true. Im planning on perfecting my craft & equipment over the first 6 - 12 months then moving forward from there. Obviously the timings are subject to change. Once I've relocated ill be chasing all the licensing & tickets required for such a venture. My CPA is squared away and ill lean on him for the numbers side of house. Wish me luck.
 

MHB

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Where are you looking at setting up, don't forget a good lawyer to go with your CPA, preferably one with some beer experience.
IP and names, a business plan... the work never ends.
Mark
 

BURGO817

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Where are you looking at setting up, don't forget a good lawyer to go with your CPA, preferably one with some beer experience.
IP and names, a business plan... the work never ends.
Mark
Gday Mark,

I going to be setting up in the ACT. I have a good lawyer also, I know you mean legal beer knowledge (Not a pisshead, lol)
Like I've mentioned ill be coming to you guys and local industry guys for help to navigate through the hurdles. Is there a cheatsheet or checklist that you might know exists for a venture like this or some other guidelines?

Im chipping away at the BP as its an ever evolving beast & I've looked into IP/TMs etc too. Im going to lock everything down after EFY. Clean slate & all that.
 

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