Stainless Braided Hoses At Mash Temps

[kjparker]

I am in the process of getting a herms setup together, and am looking at ways to connect my pump to it all.

I have a brown pump which I will be using, and the threads are ideal for connecting using these hoses.

Has anyone had any experience with using these at mash temps? I have tried searching, but all the results I found was using it as a manifold with the insides removed!

I have silicone hose I can use if need be, but these hoses look like a neat solution.

I have these hoses under the sink in my bathroom, and I have taken a glass of hot tap water, let it cool, then tasted it, and didnt taste anything different, but I havent measured the temperature of my tank, so cant say how hot that is.

Ideas?

 

[brettprevans]

searching is your friend
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=64459 (last post was 2 days ago)

 

[QldKev]

IMHO Silicone hose is the only hose for a brewery.


But I do have those hoses in my house and cannot notice any issues with taste.

 

[kjparker]

searching is your friend
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=64459 (last post was 2 days ago)

Yep, I found that one when I searched, was referring to at boiling temps. I wouldnt be using it for that.

 

[benf]

exactly what I am doing. See my post from yesterday for detail:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...3316&st=240


my system is almost identical to DKS's system shown here: (sorry not sure how to link properly so hope it works)
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42248&hl=brownpump&st=260



except my pumps are mounted with the outlet pointing to the ground.

Hope it helps. Works great for me.

 

[kjparker]

I guess they are cheap enough to experiment with.

I might do an experiment with them, run the unit at higher than mash temps for a couple of hours, let water cool, then taste it. I figure that should give me a pretty good idea...

 

[kjparker]

Hmm, On searching I noted that most of the hoses use EPDM rubber. So I looked up the MSDS for this material.

http://www.federalmogul.com/NR/rdonlyres/3...EPDM_Rubber.pdf

It notes that there is a potential cancer risk there. After reading this, I wont be using these hoses anywhere near my brewery.

I would even prefer not to even use them in my house!

 

[brettprevans]

Yep, I found that one when I searched, was referring to at boiling temps. I wouldnt be using it for that.

really? i must be forgiven esp as your title and original post only refers to mash temps.
regardless, why you think that boiling temps would be any differant to mash temp I have nfi.

at least you actually gone and finally done some research and confirmed exactly what the origiinal advice was ie its a no go.

 

[Parks]

regardless, why you think that boiling temps would be any differant to mash temp I have nfi.

There is definitely some hosing that is rated to approx 70 degrees so I can totally understand why he might think there is a difference.

 

[QldKev]

I hear garden hose is good too. h34r:

 

[kjparker]

really? i must be forgiven esp as your title and original post only refers to mash temps.
regardless, why you think that boiling temps would be any differant to mash temp I have nfi.

at least you actually gone and finally done some research and confirmed exactly what the origiinal advice was ie its a no go.

Seriously? I really dont know what your problem with me is....

I'm not trying to start any wars here, but I even stated in my first post I had searched.

The link you posted was referring to "near boiling" to be used as part of a chiller. I do realise my reply to your post did not convey what I was trying to get across very clearly.

I was asking specificaly for mash temps, and was unable to find any results for that, only where people had used these hoses (with the rubber removed) as part of their mash tun manifold. Documents I had found (from sellers) had stated that (at least some of) the hoses were rated to 90deg, and was wondering if there was any reason not to use them.

It wasnt even untill I found a manufacturers website that stated what the rubber material actually was that I was able to find the MSDS.

 

[kjparker]

I hear garden hose is good too. h34r:

Yep, I hear it's the hose they use for transfers when making VB :super:

 

[brettprevans]

heavy duty silicone is the best way to go.
gryphon brewing has it half price atm

all good now?

 

[QldKev]

back on the original topic


The other thing I would have a concern with is beer is acid, where water is generally close to pH7 or alkaline. I'm not sure how that would effect the rubber hose over time. I do like the look of the s/s braid and if suitable I think it would look very neat. Also having the 1/2" fitting built into the hose it saves more adapters.

I lost a couple of cubes to using PVC hoses on my original setup for dumping from the BIAB kettle into a cube. I think I'm staying on the safe side with silicone. If silicone is good enough for Pamela Anderson's ****s, it's good enough for me.


QldKev

 

[kjparker]

back on the original topic


The other thing I would have a concern with is beer is acid, where water is generally close to pH7 or alkaline. I'm not sure how that would effect the rubber hose over time. I do like the look of the s/s braid and if suitable I think it would look very neat. Also having the 1/2" fitting built into the hose it saves more adapters.


QldKev

That was my thinking, with regards to convenience and appearance. If there was an issue with one of the hoses it would be easy to replace, can get them anywhere...

But given the doubt with the rubber, I dont think it's worth the risk, especially with the point you raise about the acidity of the beer.

 

[benf]

each to their own but you may want to consider the following in regards to EPDM.

First, the MSDS you have pulled out is for the material in it's raw form, not in its finished manufactured article form. Many materials are "hazardous" in their raw form until they are converted into everyday articles of use.
Second: EPDM hoses are used regularly in the food industry and, of course, in most household domestic supply of drinking water, both hot and cold.
Thirdly, as evidence to above, I have linked to both a supplier we deal with for hose (being that I am in the food industry), aswell as a link to the testing methods used to gain the accreditions that the EPDM hose has. You will see that under the acreditation guidelines, these hoses are safe for drinking water at the manufacturers rated temperature. I use a hose that is rated to 105degC under the AS/NZS 4020 guideline. Note in the testing method that the hose is exposed to the test elements for days on end, not the potentially 1 hour that it might get in its use in making a brew.

http://www.darubber.cn/RUBBER%20TUBING.htm

http://www.wrcnsf.com/downloads/AS_NZS%204...nce%20Notes.pdf

Fourthly, beer wort is only midly acidic, don't get too stressed that it has the power to eat through materials such as rubber. EPDM is safe a pH's that wort can achieve.

I use these hoses because they are cheap, readily available, come with a connection already on them and are kink resistent at higher temps which is great for the bends that we typically have in our brew rig setups.

Silicon hosing is great too, but I just found it too expensive by the time you add on all the required fittings, although I do like the idea of being able to see your beer in the lines.

Anyway, as I said, each to their own, but I am happy with my set-up and would definitely recommend it to anyone else.

 

[Feldon]

QuietKiwi - thanks for that info. Interesting perspective. So - to use or not to use, that is the question.

 

[dent]

If those are the same stainless externally braided 'gas/water hookup hoses' I used to get from bunnings/hardware store, I wouldn't use them - The tube inside is made of a rather smelly black rubber/plastic that I wouldn't want my beer touching just for taste contamination more than any other reason.

 

[QldKev]

I'm taking a guess the stuff quite kiwi is talking about is different from the stuff at Bunnings, and is more build for purpose. Most likely priced like it too.



QldKev

 

[Wolfy]

I use these hoses because they are cheap, readily available, come with a connection already on them and are kink resistent at higher temps which is great for the bends that we typically have in our brew rig setups.

Silicon hosing is great too, but I just found it too expensive by the time you add on all the required fittings, although I do like the idea of being able to see your beer in the lines.

Silicon hose can be had for around $5/m, SS Snaplock fittings (purchased bulk from USA) are about $5 each.
Last I checked the big green shed the rubber-stainless braid fittings were about $10 each and often less than a meter in length.
That pretty much negates the argument that the rubber-stainless braid setup is cheaper and IMHO it's certainly not better.