Speciality Grains Question

[Beer Ninja]

I'm brewing my first speciality grains brew tomorrow with Crystal Malt, Black Malt, 2.5K Light DME, 670gms Dextrose and 2 x 25gms finishing hops, Fuggles and .... I forget ..... :unsure:

(I'm not planning on adding hops after the 30 minute steep, just adding the finishing hops to the fermenter)

After steeping the speciality grains at 160f for thirty minutes, can I miss out the 60 minute boil and just throw the grain mixture, DME, Dextrose and finishing hops into the fermenter and top up with water?

Am I right in thinking that if using speciality grains that the 60 minute boil is for the nenefit of the hops only?

I've googled, you tubed and searched to no avail and now I'm hoping someone on here can help!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Yob]

What ibu are you hoping for?

 

[Beer Ninja]

What ibu are you hoping for?

Hi Yob.

In a word, I don't know - my beer brewing to date has been limited to a can of Morgans Old with an additional can of Morgans Dark Roasted Malt. I have no experience of measuring or predidicting bitterness I'm afraid!

I can tell you that I never liked the hoppy ales on sale in the U.K though, I always used to go for the dark ales.

Hope that helps a little!

 

[damoninja]

Am I right in thinking that if using speciality grains that the 60 minute boil is for the nenefit of the hops only?

Yeah - Don't boil the grains, what you want to do is steep them at around 65C for 30 minutes... Strain off the grains and add resulting liquid to your extract / hops boil.

What type are the finishing hops?

 

[Beer Ninja]

Yeah - Don't boil the grains, what you want to do is steep them at around 65C for 30 minutes... Strain off the grains and add resulting liquid to your extract / hops boil.

What type are the finishing hops?

Fuggles and Goldings

 

[manticle]

You need to boil the liquid for at least 10 minutes to sanitise it before adding. Grain contains bugs that can sour your brew.

So:

1. Steep cracked grains.
2. Strain and rinse, discard grain, keep liquid.
3. Boil liquid, adding hops if need be (not in your case)
4. Add to fermenter with rest of mix.

You can add extract to the boil if you have room in the pot - helps dissolve it easily but not strictly necessary in your case.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You dont need to steep, just boil for 10mins. But dont go over 10mins or you start exctracting tannins.

There is nothing wrong with boiling cracked grains as all you are doing is extracting the flavour

 

[manticle]

Where did you get ten minutes as the cutoff point for tannin extraction stu?

 

[Beer Ninja]

You need to boil the liquid for at least 10 minutes to sanitise it before adding. Grain contains bugs that can sour your brew.

So:

1. Steep cracked grains.
2. Strain and rinse, discard grain, keep liquid.
3. Boil liquid, adding hops if need be (not in your case)
4. Add to fermenter with rest of mix.

You can add extract to the boil if you have room in the pot - helps dissolve it easily but not strictly necessary in your case.

Thanks to everyone who posted and thanks manticle - you've managed to make it very clear to a newbie who's only just understood that there's a difference between 'boiled' and 'steeped'

So, the kit is sanitising and it looks like I can now get on with my first kit/speciality grain brew tommorow. In my new fermenting fridge.
As my youngest boy says .....YAY

 

[indica86]

Am I missing the kit details? It all appears to be unhopped extract. Don't you need some bittering?

 

[lukiferj]

Thanks to everyone who posted and thanks manticle - you've managed to make it very clear to a newbie who's only just understood that there's a difference between 'boiled' and 'steeped'

So, the kit is sanitising and it looks like I can now get on with my first kit/speciality grain brew tommorow. In my new fermenting fridge.
As my youngest boy says .....YAY

God luck mate. It's a slippery slope from here :beerbang:

 

[Yob]

Am I missing the kit details? It all appears to be unhopped extract. Don't you need some bittering?

Correct, hence I asked what IBU he was after.

Mate, download the spreadsheet from >HERE< and plug your ingredients into it. It's pretty easy to use and will give you a rough idea of what to expect.

If you are only using finishing hops, I dont think youll end up with much of a balance, thats also a lot of DEX for a single batch. Personally, I'd reduce that to no more than 300g.

Even if you dont like bitter beers, you will still need to get some bittering in there, simply adding the finishing hops to the FV will not do that.

have a look at the attached, I plugged in 20g Goldings and fuggle with a 60 min boil and it roughly brings it into balance.. but hay, have a play with the spread sheet and see what you come up with

The big difference for you here is that the cans you have previously done are bittered, the extract brew you are going to do is not.

 

[BeerNess]

My post was redundant, not reading all the way through

 

[manticle]

Definitely need bittering hops if it's extract only. I presumed pre-bittered when you said you weren't adding hops to the boil.

 

[mckenry]

You dont need to steep, just boil for 10mins. But dont go over 10mins or you start exctracting tannins.

There is nothing wrong with boiling cracked grains as all you are doing is extracting the flavour

That is news to me. Never heard it before. Where did you find that info?

 

[NewtownClown]

I searched and cannot find anything that advocates boiling the grain for any length of time. Bring to the boil then arresting the heat is very old school (as in Complete Joy of Homebrewing by Papaizian - in the beginners section).

The reason for keeping the steep, ideally, below 77c is indeed to reduce the presence of the flavour affecting tannins. Temperature and pH over 6 are responsible for extracting these tannins. Steeping grains in a thin mix will mean the grains' effect on pH will be limited and without the pale base malts, which help lower the pH, as used in a full mash all grain or a partial mash, the pH will be high.
So bringing the grain to a boil in a >6pH liquor is the worst scenario for minimising the extraction of astringent tasting tannins

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I went to u-brew-it and they left the sack of grains in the boil for the entire time.

Even though the beer turned out well it just didnt seem right.

 

[damoninja]

Guess it comes down to the amount of grains you're using and the purpose hey?

Boiling 150 grams of choc is probably not going to matter, you're still going to get the flavour? and you're not after much fermentable anyways.
Boiling 2kg of base malt is a royal waste of time as it will result in little (or no?) sugar conversion...

 

[NewtownClown]

From my own experience, on a whim I decided my brew (ordinary bitter) needed 50 grams of choc malt for more colour, The boil had started so I poured water from a just boiled jug over the grain and left it 30 mins then added to the kettle - sans grain - for the final 30 min boil.
I noticed what I thought was a barely perceptible tannin astringency in the resulting beer, whilst a number of friends agreed it was "bitter at the end, kind of like strong tea". I put that down to the only deviation from my normal process - too high a temp for the steeping grains.

Before anyone points out decoction mashing where a portion of the mash is removed and boiled for 10-30 mins, the mash, because of the presence of pale grain) has a pH of around 5.4 and which helps restrain the amount of tannin extracted. Also, a small amount of tannin seems to be part of the identity of the malt-bold german beers produced this way and works with the caramel and melanoidins.

 

[Beer Ninja]

Correct, hence I asked what IBU he was after.

Mate, download the spreadsheet from >HERE< and plug your ingredients into it. It's pretty easy to use and will give you a rough idea of what to expect.

If you are only using finishing hops, I dont think youll end up with much of a balance, thats also a lot of DEX for a single batch. Personally, I'd reduce that to no more than 300g.

Even if you dont like bitter beers, you will still need to get some bittering in there, simply adding the finishing hops to the FV will not do that.

have a look at the attached, I plugged in 20g Goldings and fuggle with a 60 min boil and it roughly brings it into balance.. but hay, have a play with the spread sheet and see what you come up with

The big difference for you here is that the cans you have previously done are bittered, the extract brew you are going to do is not.

kit designer.png

I was just about to brew up then thought I'd come and check the thread, good job I did....

Thanks mate, it seems that you may have saved me from making a dodgy brew, you're a star!

Yes, i see what you mean about adding the hops now. I've been getting the hops in the extract kits but not noticing them but If I don't add some I will notice!

I've downloaded the spreadsheet and studied the png you attached. Took a while to find the latest version with Medium Crystal in the drop down but I have it now.

Had a play with it and will definitely put some more time into learning how to use it. Great resource that.

Meanwhile I'm happy to go with your suggestion of 20g Goldings and Fuggles on a 60 minute boil.

Off to 'All Things Brewing' again then tomorrow for some hops!

Cheers.