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Sparging Temps

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hamstringsally

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When i sparge the strike temp is 76 as it hits the grains. i usually then circulate till it runs clear then take the run off. As i was circulating i saw that the temp had dropped down to around 70 and then slowly kept decreasing on from there. Is this ok or should i be aiming to have it sitting in the grains at 76 and hitting with a higher strike temp?

cheers


Hammo
 

DJR

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Batch or fly sparging? Batch i assume? What was the final mash temp before sparging? Was all the strike water at 76?

I don't think too low a sparge temp will hurt, but in some cases might lead to a stuck mash and you might have a percent or two less efficiency at a lower temperature - not too much to worry about as a homebrewer as you can add a bit more grain next time

Personally I think you should increase your sparge strike temp a little to about 80C or do a small step infusion before sparging to mash-out - say 72 or 73C and then sparge at 76C as you will get less temperature loss
 

QldKev

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Get a HERMS :ph34r:


As DJR asked when you mash out are you mashing out at mashing temp or rising it to 78c? Do you actually have a heat exchanger?

If you are mashing out at mashing temp, using one of the water temp calculators you should be able to push the sparge water up a few degree so you end up at the sparge temp.

If you are mashing out at sparge temps then I'm guessing the temp in the mash bed may not actually be hitting the target.


QldKev
 

hamstringsally

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Batch or fly sparging? Batch i assume? What was the final mash temp before sparging? Was all the strike water at 76?

I don't think too low a sparge temp will hurt, but in some cases might lead to a stuck mash and you might have a percent or two less efficiency at a lower temperature - not too much to worry about as a homebrewer as you can add a bit more grain next time

Personally I think you should increase your sparge strike temp a little to about 80C or do a small step infusion before sparging to mash-out - say 72 or 73C and then sparge at 76C as you will get less temperature loss

yeah batch sparging. final mash temp is 69 deg. Its possible that not all strike water is at 76 which is a really good point. I give the water a good stir before taking a digital reading off the top of the water but still might not be 76 all way through. I have never increased the temp for a mash out in all of my brewing. not sure if this is a bad thing that i dont do it?
 

DJR

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yeah batch sparging. final mash temp is 69 deg. Its possible that not all strike water is at 76 which is a really good point. I give the water a good stir before taking a digital reading off the top of the water but still might not be 76 all way through. I have never increased the temp for a mash out in all of my brewing. not sure if this is a bad thing that i dont do it?
Not doing a mash out won't really cause much of a drama, does get a bit more out and stops the mash from converting but really the sparge does the same thing - more appropriate when fly sparging IMHO. It sounds like you should sparge a bit hotter, insulate your mash tun a bit better or make sure you stir your sparge water a bit so you know the temp reading is correct
 

Acasta

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When i sparge the strike temp is 76 as it hits the grains... dropped down to around 70 and then slowly kept decreasing on from there
Hey Hammo,
Sounds like you are loosing alot of temp over the mash out. How long do you rest it for before draining? Is your tun insulated? I'm not 100% on if infusing higher will be bad due to husks leading to astringency in the mash, but this may be a fly sparge thing.
As others have said, the MO temp isn't the most important thing, however it will lend to a higher extract from the first runnings.
 

Fourstar

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i used to sparge at 77 but decided to sparge at 73 in an attempt to identify what was causing my out of control permanent haze (ended up being filtering/excessive residual starsan). Stuck with 73 deg for a couple of years.

Since going to HERMS i sparge at my dextrinization rest temp (72 deg) however i run out of the mashtun via the herms to the kettle so im likely to be denaturing most of the enzymes on the way to the kettle anyway.

what does this mean? Nothing w/respect to your question but what you should know is the idea of a mashout/increased sparge temp is to stop ezymatic activity (only really an issue in larger breweries due to the time it takes to begin boiling) and potentially increase your mash efficiency. At the end of the day you'd be lucky to lose a point or less due to the temp loss. don't worry yourself. ;)
 

dent

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I sparge with cold water. Works fine.
 

dent

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No harm in it - takes a little longer for the kettle to boil, maybe slightly less effciency, though I haven't seen much difference with hot water on the same system.

It can even be beneficial inasmuch as less tannin extraction and possibly more chill haze protein filtration (dunno if you've noticed this, but if you run nice shiny bright hot extract from the mash into the kettle, then cool it down tepid, it gets hazy real quick - lots of chill haze protein in unboiled extract).

I don't think there is enough of a difference there to really matter though.
 

Brewman_

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No harm in it - takes a little longer for the kettle to boil, maybe slightly less effciency, though I haven't seen much difference with hot water on the same system.

It can even be beneficial inasmuch as less tannin extraction and possibly more chill haze protein filtration (dunno if you've noticed this, but if you run nice shiny bright hot extract from the mash into the kettle, then cool it down tepid, it gets hazy real quick - lots of chill haze protein in unboiled extract).

I don't think there is enough of a difference there to really matter though.
No Issue man, but why not use hot water just for the sake of convenience and time saving? Bye the way I have seen this done before.

Fear.
 

dent

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Sure, hot water is preferable, all things being equal. I just don't think it is a factor that makes a significant difference in the beer.
 

Helles

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No harm in it - takes a little longer for the kettle to boil, maybe slightly less effciency, though I haven't seen much difference with hot water on the same system.

It can even be beneficial inasmuch as less tannin extraction and possibly more chill haze protein filtration (dunno if you've noticed this, but if you run nice shiny bright hot extract from the mash into the kettle, then cool it down tepid, it gets hazy real quick - lots of chill haze protein in unboiled extract).

I don't think there is enough of a difference there to really matter though.

This might be an option for a double brew day
A normal fly sparge @ 75'c
And Maybe the Wit Bier i have planned Any haze not important
It would deffently shorten the brew day for me
Has anyone else tried this cold sparge
I know i cant get the HLT to 75'C in between brews
My thought is if haze could be the only problem other than Eff%
Then a Wit as the second brew could be an option
Wasnt planning to do these on the same day but
If this has been done (cold sparging )
And anyone can back this up i may give it a try
Im running out of time before Christmas
 

QldKev

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Sure, hot water is preferable, all things being equal. I just don't think it is a factor that makes a significant difference in the beer.
I agree with dent, the sparge temp wont make a significant difference in the beer. Back when I was a BIAB'er and running the 100L batch, I use to 'hose sparge'. Funny thing was with BIAB I found bugger all difference in efficiency when I changed from 'HWS sparging' to 'hose sparging'. I only ever sparged the BIAB because I could not fit the full vol of water in the pot upfront. With my 3V and having heat exchangers I do bring the mash up up to 77c before dumping to the kettle, as I think I've either got to wait for the hx to do it or I'm going to have to wait for the kettle to do it, so there is no real time saving by not ramping to mashout. At the end of the day find what works for you and your system.

QldKev
 

hamstringsally

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Hey Hammo,
Sounds like you are loosing alot of temp over the mash out. How long do you rest it for before draining? Is your tun insulated? I'm not 100% on if infusing higher will be bad due to husks leading to astringency in the mash, but this may be a fly sparge thing.
As others have said, the MO temp isn't the most important thing, however it will lend to a higher extract from the first runnings.
The mash tun is insulated and generally holds for a whole hour with no drop through the mash. I drain out the mash over the period of a hour into the 30 litre fermenters cos my system runs off two vessels. Then once its finished I add sparge at 76 and circulate till clear and run though a full cycle (roughly takes about 10 to 15 min) then take the run off over another hour. as i was brewing friday i kept a eye on temp over that 10 to 15 min period and saw how much it dropped. which made me wonder whats the outcome.



which brings me to my next question. I do find i have chill haze and my beer is a bit cloudy. is this because my wort cools down in the fermenters while i run the sparge water out of the boil pot?

cheers
 

Bizier

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Sometimes I switch to cold water when I fall short of sparge water because I heat my water in kettle and run mash liquor to holding buckets. But I figure generally by the time I am cutting in the cold, the only function it has is to maintain the lauter structure and pressures. It also cools the spent grain down to a much easier handling temp when getting rid of it.

To the OP, yes I would go hotter, but with the provision that you have your calcium and pH sorted out. In my case, I am lazy and just add some gypsum (possibly chalk as well for dark beer) to my mash and sparge liquor because every time I have measured my pH (light and dark, strong and weak) it has been fine enough for me to skip it. Your mileage may vary.
 

Bizier

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which brings me to my next question. I do find i have chill haze and my beer is a bit cloudy. is this because my wort cools down in the fermenters while i run the sparge water out of the boil pot?
I doubt it mate.

I would again, look at the level of calcium available in mash.

ED: I don't mean to sound like a gloating tosser, but with my lazy arsed mash chemistry and chilling the ferment for anywhere from a day to much longer (if I am lazy or it is something special) I basically always (except one beer using coopers yeast) get near-brilliant clarity in the keg within 24-48 hours.
 

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