Some Mash Questions

[dicko]

G'day to all,
After having done a few full mash brews now I have some questions.

What does the term "mash out" mean?

After you have done the mash at lets say 66deg c for 90 mins, what temperature should the mash be at during the sparging of the grist?

And, how important is this temperature?

What are the advantages of a 90min boil over a 60min boil (if any)?

If you are taking specific gravity readings during the sparge and it is said not to sparge lower than 1008, is that the actual SG at wort temp or should that be the converted SG, allowing for the higher temp of the wort?

Hope someone can help
Cheers

 

[Justin]

How you doing BBB,
I'm fairly new to this too. Done a few all grains now (kegged and tasted a Boags Premium clone last night, oh yum yum yum-much more flavour than the original and in my opinion superior to it-am I biased? )
Anyway I think I can answer a few questions.

1. Mashout-generally done at 76-78oC, the idea is to denature the enzymes and halt any further conversion which may or may not alter the profile of the wort you were after. Most people seem to see this as an optional step, however it is handy for increasing the mobility of the sugars in your wort and also helps your sparge water temp be closer to the recommended 78oC (mine is rarely this high ATM, more fine tuning).

2. Sparge temp should be around 78oC, but as I said above mine has been much lower than this lately (high 60's). I need to allow a good few degrees higher temp in the HLT to get an approx 78oC in the mash tun, by the time it gets through the tap and tubing. Plus if you have the lid off your mash tun for the sparge the temp drops bloody quick. I haven't had any noticible problems by not sparging at 78oC, but I will try to rectify this on the next brew. Measure the temp of the water sitting above the grain bed during the sparge, I think you will be suprised by how low it is. I estimate that my HLT needs to be maybe 82oC for the correct temp at mash tun. Also working on a lid too cover mash tun during sparge to conserve heat.

3. Boil time? Not sure what difference it makes.

4. Yep, use a temp corrected hydrometer SG reading. (Thank you promash for making this quick and easy). I stop at 1010. No real reason though for 1010 compared to 1008.

 

[wedge]

the advantage to 90min boil is twofold.

1 it allows you to sparge more, then boil down to 23ish litres
2 it get the hot break over and done with before you start adding your hops.

 

[dicko]

Thanks guys,
Great response and easy to understand.
I have been heating sparge water in a big pot and then slowly pouring it through the mash with a jug.
If I heat the sparge water to 80deg c I am lucky to get 70deg c in the mash and this is only toward the end of the sparge.
I am currently working on my "brew structure" and will need to take all this into consideration with its construction and design.
Someone told me that you get a clearer wort with a 90min boil so I guess this would have something to do with the "hot break".
These forums are excellent when it comes to help and advice, I am stoked at the things i have learned about brewing since joining
Thanks for youe help,
Cheers

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Yes conventional wisdom is to mash out to kill the enzymes and make the sugar less viscous. Not sure either of these really happen: while 78C might denature the beta enzyme, it would work really fast at that temp before it is denatured.

However, since you have the heated sparge water ready, chuck some in and leave it for 10 mins.

Bit concerned about the "sparge till runnings at 1008" Reckon that is too low, I stop sparging when the runnings are 1020--I guestimate this: if the hydrometer is floating at 1016-18 at sparge temp I decide that means it is "really" 1020. Not too important, lots of safety margin there, before tannins etc get extracted.

But always use your hydrometer to tell when it is time to sptop sparging--tasting the runnings is no good as the sugar in the runnings will mask the tannins starting to come out in the runnings, try this with a small cup of weak tea, you won't notice the tannins after adding a tsp of sugar!

Jovial Monk

 

[sosman]

BBB - I hope I am not trying to tell folk how to suck eggs (I have only done 3 partial mashes) but there is a sparge techniqe that among other things takes the worry out of SG/pH towards the end, its called batch sparging.

There are a few links to the technique on the brewiki pages but in a nutshell it is tossing in all the sparge water in one go, stirring, let it rest, vorlauf then drain. On my last attempt using the esky mash tun I got 75% and I am hoping to do a bit better once I understand the parameters of my system a bit better. I have just scored a 40 litre pot so I will attempt a full-mash/full-boil on my next brew.

As an aside, I have a SG temperature adjustment web form at:
SG Temperature Adjustment
You can either run it as a calculator on line or print out a table according to what your hydrometer is calibrated to and stick it on the brewery wall.

 

[dicko]

Sosman, how are you?
I have done mainly batch sparging until now but they all were for partial mash.
I, like you were very successful and I will admit it is a lot easier but I have gone to fly sparging to try it before I set up my "brew structure" to see how it all works.
Your brewkiki pages are very informative and I have referred to them a lot just recently.
I have got promash for my temp/SG adjustments and I am just at this stage getting used to everything however a chart on the brauhaus wall is another good idea.
Thanks for your input, it is most appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Batz]

Gotta agree with sosman .
Batch sparging is the way for me a present , done 6 AG's batch sparged the last 4

I will change when my set up is finished , and pump etc connected

Continue to brew , and my the yeast be with you !

 

[sosman]

Well for sour grapes, I am tired of sprinkler systems they can stay in my back yard.

If I can keep getting at least 75% efficiency with batch sparging then I have no motivation to start irrigation.

John Palmer reckons batch sparging is less efficient but from other punters I hear there is a poofteenth of buggerall in it, if that, with the bonus that you are not sucking out tannins and "riding the pH pony".

The origin of "fly" sparging ...

 

[dicko]

Sosman,
Love it [LOL]
Cheers

 

[big d]

guys
batch sparge is way easy

check out this think ive posted it before.well known in usa brewing society batch sparge brewing guru.and general knowledgeable bloke.

http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/dennybrew/

i havent furked around with fly sparging.went straight to batch sparging and hit high efficiencies.have had to raise batch sparge water temps some what but results are proving good.im sold.bugger the sprinklers.

cheers
big d

 

[big d]

one more good site of batch sparge info is on the grain and grape site.
look under brewing techniques and hit batch sparging by steve nicholls.s.a brewer with heaps of info and doesnt mind the odd email seeking advice and freely gives his latest ideas/trials back via email.top bloke.

cheers
big d

 

[dicko]

Big D, how are you,
With batch sparging what temp do you try to get in the tun when you do the second batch sparge?
Do you aim for 78deg c like fly sparging or do you keep it lower?
cheers.

 

[big d]

hi bbb how ya going
big buck question thats sure to get varying opinions.
theres formulas and formulas.
i had an email update from steve nicholls (grain and grape article) suggesting i raise my sparge water temp to 85-87 deg c to get a grain bed temp of 73-75 deg c.
you have to watch the grain bed temp as it will rise with more batch sparging so have some cold water on hand to bring it down to the required temp that you are chasing.its trial and error like never before.
another thing also steve mentioned is to let the sparge sit for ten minutes before each running rather than filling/stirring and dumping.i guess it lets more sugars dissolve.
so far i must say im very happy with the results.
hope this helps bbb

cheers
big d

 

[dicko]

Yeah, thanks Big D,
I figure that I can raise the mash temp at mash out by recirculating the wort through the coil in the HLT and then drain the batch with infusion to make up half the required amount.
And then add the correct volume water from the HLT at the temp that will give me about 75deg c in the mash tun and complete the batch sparge.
Does this sound about right Big D?
Cheers

 

[Batz]

Fly sparge <_< <_<

Just want to keep up with sosman

 

[Batz]

or this

 

[dicko]

Batz, How are you mate,

LOL
I guess I am getting the idea after the comments and pics from you, Big D and Sosman.
If anyone else wants to make graphic comments re the fly sparge I would only be too happy to download the images and save them in a file as I have with the above.
LOL

I think fly sparging is like masterbation -
"It is a good idea but no one seems to do it"

Cheers

 

[RobW]

Like that famous piece of social research BBB:

95% of people masturbate
5% of people are liars

 

[Murray]

Haha!

I'm a batch sparging advocate, myself. I agree with the sentiment that sprinklers are for the lawn.