SOLVED - Brand new Buffalo urn won't reach rolling boil

[bundy]

Hi all,

So I purchased a 40L Buffalo hot water urn and I'm currently doing a test run with water. It's been going on full whack for about 2 hours and still hasn't reached a rolling boil. It reached a rolling boil with the lid on but not with the lid off.

The ambient temp is around 26ºC and the water temp in the urn won't go above 92.5ºC .

I'm not sure what to do here. I'm thinking I'm either doing it wrong, or I need to insulate the urn. Pics below and any advice is greatly appreciated.

I just pulled mine out after reading this to make sure it was ok. I started with hot water from the tap so already around 60 degrees.

Filled to about 25 litres and let it go. Took a good hour to get up to temp, maybe more. Once boiling it is not a strong boil with lid off, but it is a boil non the less.

You mention yours boils with lid on so indicates it is not cutting out with the thermostat.

Is it that you expect a more robust boil?

Also with your thermometer are you sure it is accurate? Maybe put it in your boiling kettle and compare the temp. Mine for example read 98 degrees. So was out a bit too.

If you think it is cutting out early their are mods around to replace the thermal cutout, or bypass the boil dry. Just google buffalo thermal cutout and will give you plenty of hits of how to do it.

Also for insulation I used air-cell insulation, it's what they use in wall cavities to insulate houses. Silver foil with a foam in between. Just warped it around a couple of times and certainly helps a lot. The yoga matts you linked to have been reported to melt and stick to the walls of the urn. Try get some air cell from a local house building site, off cut is all you need and works well, just ask the brickies doing the job if they have some left over. They will normally help out.

http://www.kingspaninsulation.com.au/Products/Kingspan-Air-Cell/AIR-CELL-Permicav/Overview.aspx

 

[wide eyed and legless]

If I get you mad will you make me one.

 

[hathro]

Is it that you expect a more robust boil?

Also with your thermometer are you sure it is accurate? Maybe put it in your boiling kettle and compare the temp. Mine for example read 98 degrees. So was out a bit too.

If you think it is cutting out early their are mods around to replace the thermal cutout, or bypass the boil dry. Just google buffalo thermal cutout and will give you plenty of hits of how to do it.

Also for insulation I used air-cell insulation, it's what they use in wall cavities to insulate houses. Silver foil with a foam in between. Just warped it around a couple of times and certainly helps a lot. The yoga matts you linked to have been reported to melt and stick to the walls of the urn. Try get some air cell from a local house building site, off cut is all you need and works well, just ask the brickies doing the job if they have some left over. They will normally help out.

http://www.kingspaninsulation.com.au/Products/Kingspan-Air-Cell/AIR-CELL-Permicav/Overview.aspx

Yes, I expected a robust boil based on all the videos on the net.

Boiled the kettle, when it switched off I tested the temp with two thermometers. 97ºC on both.

I'm convinced it's not a case of cutting out, it just won't get up to a rolling boil with the lid off. Lid on, no worries.

 

[technobabble66]

In that case everything works & it's a simple matter of losing too much heat (once the lid's off). Get some insulation around that baby. Problem solved. RDWHAHB! :lol:

 

[hathro]

Technobabble66, I'm coming to that conclusion. The walls are thin and there is a large surface area on top for heat to dissipate. There are quite a few houses going up in my estate. I'll ask nicely for some insulation. Will report back.

 

[hathro]

So I've added some insulation and it's now getting up to 96ºC. It still isn't a rolling boil by any stretch of the imagination. A small 1mm high bubble forms and lots of steam comes off - video below. It's annoying as the boil is so voilent when you first take the lid off.

Buffalo urn "rolling boil" 2

 

[pk.sax]

Why don't you cut a piece of foil and just float that on the surface and leave the lid off.

 

[technobabble66]

+1 practicalfool.
Disappointing the insulation didn't get you up to a simmer at least - i thought the tall skinny design of the Booffalo might've meant the side insulation would be enough.
Anyways, make an aluminium foil boat, use a cake tin (my preference) or use a disposable aluminium foil tray. Either way - float it on the top as you boil. It diminishes heat loss enough to facilitate the rolling boil, while still allowing the escape of gases required to minimise/negate DMS in the finished beer.
Give it a crack & report back!

 

[hathro]

Buffalo urn - rolling boil, great success! - Finally! Hah, you guys are great.

Will the foil have any affect on my brew?

 

[technobabble66]

Erm... maybe make the foil a little smaller :lol:

I use 1-2 little square cake tins, each ~10cm across. (my Birko's ~35-40cm diameter).
You want to have enough coverage to allow the rolling boil, but leave as much space free to allow the best escape of the gases/vapour.
Yours will probably still work, but i'm not sure if the gases/vapour will escape enough to let the boil do its job properly.

The Aluminium foil should be fine in the boil & not negatively affect the brew. Plenty of people use Aluminium pots for brewing with no problems.

But Congrats on getting the rolling boil !!
*NOW* you can RDWHAHB!

 

[hathro]

Yeah, I started off with a large piece and recorded it. Made it smaller and it still worked but didn't bother recording it. Was all about reducing the exposed surface area on top rather than the side insulation. The side insulation will help with heat retention during the mash.

 

[BreadMurderer]

I'm just waiting for my mash to finish in my 40L Buffalo urn so I'll report back here on how my boil goes. So bloody excited to finally be getting my first BIAB on here in Oz. :beerbang:

 

[Ross]

Hathro,

You should not have to be doing that to get a boil. I have no personal knowledge of the buffalo boiler, but some have already posted they get a good boil with this kit, I'd be contacting who you purchased it from for a remedy/replacement.


cheers ross

 

[hathro]

Hi Ross,

I agree. It's a poor solution if I have to do all of that just to get a boil. Called the company and going through the warranty/replacement process now. I have my other kettle to use on gas which is working fine for now.

I'm interested to see how BreadMurderer goes.

 

[BreadMurderer]

Right I'm done.

I got a nice strong boil WITH the lid on but it reduced to a tame rolling boil once the lid was removed. I then deployed HMS Tinfoil and this sorted her out almost instantly.

I'm happy with it, probably didn't need the tinfoil but I wanted it going a bit more vigorous.

 

[hathro]

BreadMurderer, was your rolling boil as poor as mine (Buffalo urn "rolling boil" 2) before you deployed your ship?

 

[BreadMurderer]

I'd say it was a bit more active than that and I did it outside with no insulation.

 

[hathro]

So an update on this. I've done three mods to the urn.

1. Added some insulation between the bottom of the urn and the temperature probe
2. Replaced the cutout sensor to a 130ºC one
3. Replaced the thermal fuse with a 170ºC one

All up this costs about $5 and 20 minutes to complete. Here is the result:

VIDEO - Buffalo urn rolling boil

 

[Rambo]

So an update on this. I've done three mods to the urn.

1. Added some insulation between the bottom of the urn and the temperature probe
2. Replaced the cutout sensor to a 130ºC one
3. Replaced the thermal fuse with a 170ºC one

All up this costs about $5 and 20 minutes to complete. Here is the result:

VIDEO - Buffalo urn rolling boil

Glad you got it sorted Hathro. Although I'm happy with my boil at this stage, some discussions on another thread (the pistol pat BIAB podcast) has got me thinking I should be looking for a more vigorous boil. If you have time could you post where you got your parts from and what is require for this mod? Cheers

 

[hathro]

All this info came from bundy so big cheers to him!

1. Added some insulation between the bottom of the urn and the temperature probe

After.

2. Replaced the cutout sensor to a 130ºC one

Instructions: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42675

Part required: [SIZE=11pt]http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350769820823?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649[/SIZE]

3. Replaced the thermal fuse with a 170ºC one

Instructions: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42675&sid=be5677f4d05a101b4ad6d239831cfbbd&start=15

Part required: [SIZE=11pt]http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300604641346?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649[/SIZE]

The eBay links might be dead, can't check them at work. Will update later.