Sodium Per carbonate question

[Nick667]

I have found sodium perc at a bulk food place and was wondering if anyone has used it as a no rinse sanitiser the same as you can buy from the home brew shop . Is there a food grade sodium perc and another one?
Anyone know?

 

[Fro-Daddy]

It's a cleaner, not a sanitiser.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have found sodium perc at a bulk food place and was wondering if anyone has used it as a no rinse sanitiser the same as you can buy from the home brew shop . Is there a food grade sodium perc and another one?
Anyone know?

Its an alkaline cleaner, which is good to use before the acid wash. There is a lot of sodium percarbonate being sold which has not pure sodium perc but with other additives included.

 

[SKBugs]

Pretty sure it’s the active ingredient in Napisan.
I use it and it does the job for me. But def check the ingredient list of the products you are looking at

 

[Grok]

It's a cleaner, not a sanitiser.

Your wrong, its a very good sanitiser. A simple Dr Google search will enlighten you! It produces Hydrogen Peroxide (temporarily) which is a very effective sanitiser. Even better result if you use Acetic acid (vinegar) separately afterwards (or before) as well. Combining the two together is not quite as effective, but still good.
I have been using it for years as the only sanitiser and had no problems at all. I don't use it as a cleaner though, for that I use TSP in hot water and find it far more effective.
Here are some links.
https://davidsuzuki.org/queen-of-green/non-toxic-disinfecting/
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/cleaning-products
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/sodium-percarbonate-as-a-no-rinse-steriliser.81854/
http://www.chem-online.org/detergent-chemical/sodium-percarbonate.htm
https://beerco.com.au/products/sodium-percarbonate

 

[Nick667]

Mangrove Jacks also sell it as a "no rinse sanitiser. effectively sanitises everything for use in brewing, wine making & distilling"
But ingredients are sodium per carbonate and the stuff I bought from the bulk bin place says ingredients are sodium per carbonate. The price is much cheaper from the bulk shop but is there any difference e.g. food grade or other?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

As stated on the label, 'it is not a no rinse sanitiser'

Cleaning and Sanitizing
The goal of cleaning is to remove as much biomaterial as possible, while the goal of sanitizing is to reduce the population of viable microbes as much as possible and prevent them from growing on surfaces during the non-production time. It's been shown that chemical cleaners are better at removing biofilms than sanitizers and disinfectants, and sanitizers that kill cells in suspension may not be effective at killing cells within biofilms. Complete removal of unwanted microbes within biofilms can be achieved by first using a cleaning agent to remove the biomass followed by a sanitizing/disinfecting agent. CIP procedures may not be enough to remove biofilms without high turbulent flow with spray nozzles and the use of heat (low cleaning temperatures are not effective at removing biofilms). Chlorinated alkaline detergents were found to be the most effective at removing biofilms [8]. Below is a typical CIP process according to Erna Storgårds (2000); CIP processes at room temperatures are not adequate enough to remove biofilms, so use hot temperatures when applicable. Use the highest chemical concentrations recommended by the vendor. Also, the higher the velocity of the cleaning fluid through the system, the more efficient it is at removing biofilms:

Action [8] Temperature Duration
Pre-rinse cold or hot 5-10 min
Alkali cleaning with 1.5-4% sodium hydroxide (caustic) cold or hot (60-85°C) 10-60 min
Rinse cold 10-30 min
Acid wash (phosphoric, nitric, or sulphuric acid) cold 10-30 min
Rinse cold 10-30 min
Disinfection (chemical such as peracetic acid or hot water at 85-90°C) cold (or hot if using just water) 10-30 min with chemical, or 45-60 min with hot water
Rinse (might contain a low concentration disinfectant) cold 5-10 min
From milk the funk.

 

[MHB]

Opinions are like arseholes...
Its a good cleaner, Sodium Carbonate AKA washing soda. Its a good sanitiser yielding Hydrogen Peroxide, when used at the right temperatures and concentrations.
Whether you regard any amount Sodium Carbonate as beneficial to your beer is your problem. Personally I don't want any so I wouldn't use it No-Rinse.
One reason being the finishing pH of beer is a pretty important part of the specification, a very alkaline residue isn't going to help get to the 4.1-4.2ish pH I'm usually looking for.
Mark