Sodium Met In The Mash

[Green Iguana]

What are the benifits from adding a small amount of sodium met. in the mash ?
Is it anti-oxidising......how does the yeast react whem pitching......



Cheers.

 

[Wortgames]

Probably none?! Never heard of it myself. I couldn't imagine what purpose it would serve, sodium met is a preservative.

Are you sure you're not thinking of gypsum or other minerals added to lower pH?

 

[Green Iguana]

I've never seen this before either, it was definately sodium met...I will try to find the online recipe....


Cheers

 

[Gulf Brewery]

People say adding soduim met to the mash prevents/reduces Hot Side Aeration. Like a lot of brewing info, some people swear by it, some think its BS and others don't know. There is an article on HSA on the BYO website that explains it. A search on HSA and Sodium Metabisulphate will bring up a lot of material.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[Batz]

Probably none?! Never heard of it myself. I couldn't imagine what purpose it would serve, sodium met is a preservative.

Are you sure you're not thinking of gypsum or other minerals added to lower pH?

[post="54633"][/post]​

I always add 1/8 of a t/s , you will find many of us do

Batz

 

[Asher]

I've started using a pinch to the mash grains myself... jury still out here though...

Green Iguana, Your right about the anti-oxidant part. But it will just boil off in the kettle and so won't affect the yeast

Asher for now

 

[Green Iguana]

Thats what I was thinking, thanks Asher.


Cheers

 

[Wortgames]

Well bugger me sideways. I did a quick search before but couldn't find anything. I have since found this, which I have shamelessly lifted for ease of reference as it was in a long archive document from the HBD. It was written by Steve Alexander in 2002:

I've used campden tablets (a combination of sodium and potassium
metabisulphite) at around 1 to 2 grams in the mash for a 20L batch of beer.
This should produce about 40-80ppm of SO2. This seems like a *lot* of
metabisulphite to me, but it's below the levels used by winemakers. Campden
tablets are commonly used by winemakers to develop 100ppm of sulphite in
unfermented wine must.

I've only done this a couple of times - pils beers both times - and the
method produce a notably light colored beer with good flavor
characteristics. I haven't performed a controlled test of the method.
Only recently, as I prepared an talk for the recent MCAB did I come to
realize all of the advantages that sulphites bestow.

Sulphites -
- inhibit certain of the oxidase enzymes in the mash,
- prevent the Maillard processes and phenolic oxidation that lead to wort
darkening,
- mask the flavors of aldehydes,
- reduce the rate of lipid auto-oxidation and carbonyl formation.

They're a cure-all, and except that some people are allergic, can be highly
recommended. Yeast, particularly certain lager yeasts, produce some
sulphites during fermentation.

In the ASBC paper that Jim Adwell gave the web-link for the other day the
researchers added comparable levels (1.275gm of potassium metabisulphite to
15L of wort) at he beginning of the boil (the ASBC paper has several typos
btw), and the beer had lower trans-2-nonenal potential than a control and
higher levels (1.5ppm) of SO2 in aged beer, and according to the authors
"very good stability". They measure the results in terms of oxididation
products - oxidized polyphenols, oxidized sulphites(sulphates), carbonyls
and oxidized isohumulone.

Some of the same Belgian authors published a study in (JIBv105pp269-274,
Noel et al) in which they take a commercial beer and treat it with various
"stabilization" chemicals and then age the samples both naturally at 20C
and also at 40C with some O18 isotopic oxygen in the headspace. Cold-side
aeration.

Sulphite (13ppm of SO2) strongly protected polyphenols from oxidation.
PVPP treatment reduced the levels of polyphenols, but increased the level of
sulphite oxidiation.
Ascorbic acid additions caused a huge increase in sulphite and polyphenol
oxidiation ! The mechanism is the same one that is involved when reductones
from dark malt appear in beer. Ascorbic and reductones are anti-oxidants -
but if they are oxidized and given a tiny amount of Cu or Fe - then they
actually catalyze the oxidation reactions.

 

[neonmeate]

i shove in 2 tablets in every mash just for the hell of it, won't do any harm anyway.
it's also good for dechlorinating the water.

 

[AndrewQLD]

So, if we add one chemical to the mash (sodium met) we only have 198 to go for a REAL commercial brew .

Andrew

 

[Kai]

Probably none?! Never heard of it myself. I couldn't imagine what purpose it would serve, sodium met is a preservative.

And it preserves by its antioxidative action, like a lot of preservatives do.

 

[sosman]

I use sod. met. in the mash too. Can't say I notice any difference - I have heard that it affects the longevity of your beer.

 

[Kai]

I use it because I have no HST's (Hot Side Taps). My sparging technique involves a jug and a sieve.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

And it preserves by its antioxidative action, like a lot of preservatives do.

[post="54656"][/post]​

Kai

How much of the sodium met do you think will make it through to the fermented beer in a form that could act as a preservative?

Cheers
Pedro

 

[jgriffin]

it's also good for dechlorinating the water.

[post="54650"][/post]​

I don't believe that is actually correct. I can't remember the exact details, but basically there are two main ways to chlorinate the tap water. Sodium met works on one, but not the other. The one it works on is not used anywhere in Australia.

 

[sosman]

it's also good for dechlorinating the water.

[post="54650"][/post]​

I don't believe that is actually correct. I can't remember the exact details, but basically there are two main ways to chlorinate the tap water. Sodium met works on one, but not the other. The one it works on is not used anywhere in Australia.

[post="54671"][/post]​

I believe sodium met. does remove chloramine (which can't be removed by boiling). Although chloramine is not common at least around Melbourne, it is used:

http://www.ourwater.vic.gov.au/ourwater/ed...hlorination.htm

Google would help track down other areas of Australia which use chloramine water treatment.

 

[neonmeate]

i should say that i use campden tablets, which are apparently a mix of potassium and sodium met?
i think it's chloramine that it gets rid of?
a quick google search revealed a hbd post about campden tablets and dechlorination from peter wadey up in eastwood
http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4217.html#4217-2
so if it works for him then it must work for me in notsoleafy leichhardt.
when i throw them in the water it fizzes and hisses, i always assumed that was chlorine getting released?

my chemistry isnt the best so i hope you guys can straighten things out for me.

 

[Kai]

Kai

How much of the sodium met do you think will make it through to the fermented beer in a form that could act as a preservative?

Cheers
Pedro

[post="54665"][/post]​

Honestly, I don't know. I do not think much would make it through the boil thanks to the combination of the boil and the makeup of the wort. But, it seems the general theory is it does the job in the mash by preventing the precursors of noticeable oxidation forming... as you're probably aware. From everything I've learned in food chem and other subjects, this is quite possible as oxidation products do continue to react and multiply, so even if it's gone in the final beer it may still be playing a role as a preservative.

I think, however, that in the amount home brewers add (and you wouldn't want to add too much more, remember there's usually sodiumor potassium attached to that, too), any that makes it through to the final beer would probably be not much different the quantity of SO2 yeast produce naturally from sulphur compounds within the wort. But that's probably wild speculation, not that it means it fits in any less with most of the advice about this on the internet.

 

[Kai]

when i throw them in the water it fizzes and hisses, i always assumed that was chlorine getting released?

my chemistry isnt the best so i hope you guys can straighten things out for me.

[post="54676"][/post]​

The only advice I have here is that if you think it's chlorine being released like that, don't stick your nose over it to check.

 

[Ray_Mills]

Hi
I always use Sod met in the mash, just a pinch, I had problems with astringency (how do you spell that) and since i have been using it the problem has gone.
You need to do a search on the Craftbrewers site and you will come accross an artcle by Graham Sanders who will explain it. dont have time to do it.
Ray