Slow Boil Start With Crown Urn Concelead Element.

[Truman42]

I have a 40 litre crown urn with concealed element. Ive done 4 brews with this thing and normally dont have any problems but last night I had a strange issue with the urn. After adding my wort at mash out it eached boiling point no problems but I turned it down to add my first and second runnings (I split my batch sparge into 2 to rinse out the sugars better)
It then seemed to take ages to reach the boil, at least 30-40 mins. I noticed that it would make the noise like the element was fired up then I would hear a click noise and it would die down again. It kept repeating this process until it reached boil.
The light didn't switch on and off like it does when you set the thermostat lower at 80 or so.

Is this got anything to do with the "boil protection" (Or watever its called) Ive never had this problem with this urn before until now so what could be causing it?

Thanks..

 

[QldKev]

After you finished the boil, did you notice a lot of material stuck to the element? On my internal RIMS (using the same concealed element) what can happen is the crap builds up on the element and insulates it, hence not as much heat is transferred into the wort, and more is kept within the element causing the boil dry protection to cut in.

I found on mine if I did a protein rest I was almost guaranteed for it to happen.

QldKev

 

[mark0]

sounds like your urn's element thermal protection cutting in. it cuts the power when the element gets too hot. check for a dirty cover as QLDKev recommended.

i had this problem when i did a protein rest, and all the starch burnt onto the element.

You can bypass the protection, but risk wrecking your element.

 

[Truman42]

Thanks kev,

I haven't emptied the trub out yet so not sure. I start my brewing in the arvo so cleaning is a next day job.
But Ive always done a protien rest with this urn and this is the first time Ive had this problem. Its also the highest gravity brew Ive done. (1.079) so maybe thats got something to do with it.

I did give the wort a stir with a mash paddle and it reached boil a short time after that so maybe I managed to move some crud off the element. Is it worth disconnecting the boil dry protection?

 

[samhaldane]

I've got the same urn and have had the same issue.

It seems to happen more with higher gravity brews, and has happened once when I first wort hopped. Giving the element a gentle scrape with a big spoon seemed to fix things. Now I make sure there is nothing sitting on the element when I turn it on (any kind of trub, hops or simple sugars).

 

[seamad]

I bypassed mine and burnt the element out, bypass wired up with new element. Brewed a wit on the weekend with about fifty percent raw wheat and some oats and did a protein rest, always give the element a rub before boil, had no problems. Turn urn off before scrubbing. Had a little bit of burnt crud on about a third of one edge, came off when bheating up a bit of NaPerc. Picture of my scrubber in sig below
Cheers
Sean

High gravity would have added to problems, best to do a couple of scrubs during boil.

 

[QldKev]

A while back a few people bypassed the boil dry protection and a few also ended up with burned out elements, so not really recommended. In saying that I bypassed mine as a test and when I was removing the crimps I broke the boil dry bit, so can't hook it back up. But I always recirc initially with only the HERMS running, and only switch in the RIMS (concealed element) when ramping temps, so the wort has clarified quite a bit by then.

QldKev

 

[Truman42]

I bypassed mine and burnt the element out, bypass wired up with new element. Brewed a wit on the weekend with about fifty percent raw wheat and some oats and did a protein rest, always give the element a rub before boil, had no problems. Turn urn off before scrubbing. Had a little bit of burnt crud on about a third of one edge, came off when bheating up a bit of NaPerc. Picture of my scrubber in sig below
Cheers
Sean

High gravity would have added to problems, best to do a couple of scrubs during boil.

So while the wort is in the urn and before cranking up for boil you just scrape the element cover with a plastic mash paddle or something?

Couldnt find your scrubber in that post? can you give me a clue what page??

 

[samhaldane]

So while the wort is in the urn and before cranking up for boil you just scrape the element cover with a plastic mash paddle or something?

Yep, that's exactly what I do and it works for me.

 

[Truman42]

So probably my problem was that once it reached boil the first time and I turned it down to wait until I added my runnings is when the crud settled on the bottom.

Next time I wont let it get to boil until all my runnings are added.

 

[nala]

I have a 40 litre crown urn with concealed element. Ive done 4 brews with this thing and normally dont have any problems but last night I had a strange issue with the urn. After adding my wort at mash out it eached boiling point no problems but I turned it down to add my first and second runnings (I split my batch sparge into 2 to rinse out the sugars better)
It then seemed to take ages to reach the boil, at least 30-40 mins. I noticed that it would make the noise like the element was fired up then I would hear a click noise and it would die down again. It kept repeating this process until it reached boil.
The light didn't switch on and off like it does when you set the thermostat lower at 80 or so.

Is this got anything to do with the "boil protection" (Or watever its called) Ive never had this problem with this urn before until now so what could be causing it?

Thanks..

Had the same problem....coating of wort burned onto the element.
Got an electrician to disconnect the boil-dry protector and have not had a problem since.
I did contact Crown about this but got their standard disclaimer and pointed out that the urn was designed for boiling only water.

 

[seamad]

Picture about half way down first page, with malt pipe hoisted and draining.
Just turn urn off so the cleaning tool doesnt melt onto element.
Have tried both scraper and brush and found the brush better.

 

[QldKev]

Picture about half way down first page, with malt pipe hoisted and draining.
Just turn urn off so the cleaning tool doesnt melt onto element.
Have tried both scraper and brush and found the brush better.

Here's a link to seamad's element scrubber

 

[seamad]

Thanks kev,cant post links on my nook

 

[samhaldane]

That looks the goods. I've just been using an old slotted spoon from my original homebrew kit. I think a scrubber would work much better.

 

[edschache]

+1 to scraping the element during the boil (I use a big wooden spoon that has a square end). I've never had an issue with the boil I get.

 

[Bribie G]

I did a protein rest with my exposed element - first and last one, took me half a day to scrub the blackened char off the element, in fact I heard you can get new ones - might make some enquiries.

If doing a protein rest I'd recommend doing that with a thick mash, then adjusting to sacch rest with boiling water. Then mash and the starches will be zapped and nothing to stick to the element.

You could mix on the fly or use a mixing calculator:

Start off with your total strike water then remove however much you need to boil up to adjust later to sacch temp.

 

[QldKev]

@BribieG, before you order a concealed element replacement check the cost, I paid a bit over $100 to get one up to here. It still hurts to walk

QldKev

 

[Truman42]

Picture about half way down first page, with malt pipe hoisted and draining.
Just turn urn off so the cleaning tool doesnt melt onto element.
Have tried both scraper and brush and found the brush better.

That looks the go, Ive got one of those brushes.

Thanks heaps for the advice gents.