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Single smack pack, single starter?

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iralosavic

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Been a while since I was on the liquid yeast bandwagon and I've noticed a lot of old threads are gone and links to them dead!

Using yeastcalc or similar, it seems that any 3.5L+ starter will get the snack pack up above the required cell count for a lager. Is there any reason to do it in more steps, like 1L and 3L etc?

I'm all for fewer steps/less mucking around where possible if the trade off is insignificant.

Cheers
 

donburke

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I believe the correct pitch rate for a starter is 50b per litre

pitching more doesnt yield enough growth whilst pitching less leads to stressed yeast

There are many ways of getting there but the ideal is that each pitch should be at 50b per litre
 

iralosavic

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50b per litre! Woah!

Take for example a pack that's a few months old (normal) and therefore yields 50b and a typical 20L lager will need 500b, that's 9L of starters required!?

Also I don't understand how this is possible because the growth rate of the yeast won't allow it. For example, if I step up this 50b pack in 1L of 1.036 wort it should multiple to around 195b

And unless I'm understanding you wrong, you're saying I should pitch a population of 1000b into 20L of wort?

:/ Confusion
 

alcoadam

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I think he meant 5B.... (into your final product anyway)
 

iralosavic

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alcoadam said:
I think he meant 5B....
That would make just as little sense for the same reasons :/ You can't manipulate the growth rate per litre (well not without really messing around [for no real reason]). I'm probably just being autistic and interpreting things too literally.
 

iralosavic

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I've figured out what you mean haha The inoculation rate to litre ratio... sorry dude. Too easy. 1L to 3L maintains an innoculation rate of 50-60 m/ml per step. I'll just prepare 4L of 1.035 wort in my 5L flask, pour 1L into the 1L flask and pray it doesn't volcano, then allow to flocculate and decant, swoosh around and pour into 3L wort, repeat. Not too hard I guess.
 

HalfWit

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Sorry for going OT but most of above is over my head. I was just wondering how many step ups and what size starters I would need to get a 3 month old packet of WLP830 German lager ready for a 58L batch? Also how long should I leave it to ferment out? I have an 5L flask.
 

Dars183

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HalfWit said:
Sorry for going OT but most of above is over my head. I was just wondering how many step ups and what size starters I would need to get a 3 month old packet of WLP830 German lager ready for a 58L batch? Also how long should I leave it to ferment out? I have an 5L flask.
Head on over to http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html :) you will need your OG and remember to switch fermentation type to lager, if you are doing a true lager (colder ferment temp = more yeasties)

Cheers
 

HalfWit

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Mr Malty tells me with a SG of 1.052 and 13.5 Gallons batch I need 8 packs in a 15L starter. Seems a bit over the top.
 

GalBrew

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Did you check the expiry date on the calc? That could account for the hight number of packs.
 

tiprya

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Trying to get one smack pack to do 50L of lager is a stretch.

I'd look at doing a 20L batch first and using the slurry for the full 50L.
 

GalBrew

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For a 50L batch of 1.052 lager, I get 4.0 packs of yeast in a 12.06 litre starter (simple). This shrinks to 6.96L with intermittent shaking and to 4.52L with a stir plate. This was worked out using yeast that is still in date. So you either need more packs or do a stepped starter.
 

HalfWit

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Thanks guys. The yeast I wanted (German Bock) was all sold out at my LHBS as well as at Craftbrewer so I settled on WLP830 but unfortunately between my local and Craftbrewer I could only get one vial.
Im just going to step it up as much as I can over the next fortnight. Would I be best to do 4.5L starters than chill and feed to another 4.5L starter or start with 2L and work my way up? How long should I leave it to ferment out before chilling?
 

GalBrew

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If you can't be bothered doing a stepped starter (I know I can't for the most part), core brewing concepts (no affiliation etc.) has WLP830 in stock (I had a look for you). You will get it much sooner than a fortnight, then just do a normal starter.
 

iralosavic

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Core brewing also has the one he originally wanted - 833. I know coz I picked some up from him on Sunday!

Planning is key. Plan out 4 or so steps and try and keep the inoculation rate to 50ish, which is a figure on mr malty. Allow the yeast to settle to the bottom between steps (cooling speeds this up, but is argued to stress the yeast), and decant the liquid off of the yeast before starting the next step. Otherwise the cumulative volumes will get unmanageable.
 

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