Secondary fermenting and Loss of Beer

[adzr]

So I'm up to my fourth brew (using kegs) and am considering using a secondary fermenter for the first time. I use 17 litre Fresh Wort Kits from Grain & Grape in Yarraville, Victoria, to which I then add 3 litres of water as per instruction. Before I go ahead and try using a secondary fermenter I wanted to clear up a few queries I had.

1. I find that when I keg directly from the primary fermenter (I have 2 x 30L fermenters, exact model can be seen here), I typically lose about 2.5L in volume from what I started with. This is gone in traub and liquid at the bottom that is high in sediment. This is also the height on the fermenter at which the outlet tap is located, so to get any more out of the fermenter one needs to tilt the fermenter quite signficantly. This in turn disrupts the traub/sedement and can "infect" any clear beer that may be left below the level of the tap. So firstly, is it normal to lose that much beer when siphoning from the primary (and how would you minimise this loss?)? And secondly, if I use a secondary fermenter, will I likely lose a similar amount again when I transfer to the keg? Losing ~2L of beer each time I transfer means that I only end up with about 16L in the keg instead of an ideal 18.5-19L.

2. Is it okay to use the same type of fermenter for the secondary as for the primary? I have read that you want the secondary fermenter to be only slightly bigger than the volume you're putting in to it to reduce the amount of oxygen in the vessel, but then also heard people say not to worry. Is it okay to use the same size fermenter for the secondary?

3. I have heard varying recommendations on how long to leave the wort in the primary and secondary fermenters, but am unsure when the ideal time is to rack from primary to secondary. Can anyone shed any light on how long for each fermenter?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers.

 

[sp0rk]

That sediment will settle out rather quickly in keg/bottle once the beer is cold
RDWHAHB

 

[wereprawn]

If you cold condition for a few days the yeast tends to drop out and form a fairly compact sediment in the fermenter. If you want a bit more beer don't rack to secondary

As for using a secondary and times . I generally rack straight from primary to keg, let my keg sit at ambient for 3 weeks, put it in the fridge, attach the gas and by the time the beer's ready to drink all the sediment has dropped out. If you want to save on a bit of gas wait till the keg is cold. The first quarter schooner I chuck. The rest is clear as till the last quarter schooner.

I've tried racking to secondary and leaving for a week or two. The beer tasted......well.....the bloody same as if I just put it in the keg or bottle. Just a bit more sediment if I didn't cold crash.

 

[TheWiggman]

I agree with everything wereprawn said. I've seen conflicting opinions about racking to a secondary. I used to do it, but after a while found it to be a waste of time and effort. It allows oxidation so for that reason alone I don't bother any more.
I tilt my fermenter carefully when bottling though. You can get quite a lot of beer out of the bottom. As soon as it starts sucking trub that's my last bottle and I mark the cap with an X. Taste the difference later and see if it's as bad as you think.

 

[idzy]

In my opinion, the best thing about racking to a secondary is a lower sediment level when pouring out of your FV. I have only racked to secondary a few times and it is worth while in my opinion, but I have done some brews just with primary afterwards and they are fantastic beers too.

In my opinion it is more to do with how close the sediment is to your tap outlet than anything else. I cold condition on both, but find secondary pours clears due to less trub near the tap outlet.

All factors will help. filtering, cold conditioning, racking, finings, etc. It's about stacking up the pros and cons, such as infection risk, time and so forth.

 

[MaltyHops]

... This is also the height on the fermenter at which the outlet tap is located, so to get any more out of the fermenter one needs to tilt the fermenter quite signficantly. This in turn disrupts the traub/sedement and can "infect" any clear beer that may be left below the level of the tap.

Tilt fermenter to get as much clear beer out as you can and then pour remainder straight from fermenter into a jug, cover with wrap and put in fridge. It wont be long before the beer in jug settles and you get a couple of glasses of sneaky tasters. No waste.

 

[idzy]

Thanks malty. My main argument for racking was clarity though. Wastage with the methods you discuss will be comparable.

 

[superstock]

Use a racking cane, it will siphon a lot lower than the tap. More beer.

 

[TheWiggman]

This is a very relevant thread regarding potential effects of leaving beer on yeast / benefits of a secondary -
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/78640-conditioning-a-function-of-yeast-or-other-chemical-reactions/