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Second Runnings For Starter?

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Bats

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I'm brewing a Belgian Abbey today which I will cube as I don't have any other way to chill at the moment.

I have a Wyeast smack pack of 1214 Belgian Abbey which I intend to do at least a 1L starter prior to pitching.

Can anyone see any problems with using 1L of my second runnings at about 1.030 as a starter? I would do everything the same as if I were using DME.

An All Grain starter from the same grains as the brew.

What do you think?
 

Dazza88

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Sound good to me. Starter wort should be 1.030 to 1.040.

Oh boil it first. And calculate starter size required.
 

SG9090

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You could collect 2l or so from the running and boil it down to increase your gravity if it is the lower gravity starter your concerned about.
 

manticle

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I'm brewing a Belgian Abbey today which I will cube as I don't have any other way to chill at the moment.

I have a Wyeast smack pack of 1214 Belgian Abbey which I intend to do at least a 1L starter prior to pitching.

Can anyone see any problems with using 1L of my second runnings at about 1.030 as a starter? I would do everything the same as if I were using DME.

An All Grain starter from the same grains as the brew.

What do you think?
No problem at all as long as you boil it. I make all my starters from the same wort as the beer.
 

Bats

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Thanks guys. I knew it would be ok to do.

I did plan on boiling the starter wort in the Erlenmeyer flask on the stove for 15 mins or so.

I thought I'd use it from the runnings so I wouldn't have to worry about getting hop debris etc in the starter.

Cheers.
 

Weizguy

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Have you used the Mr Malty calculator?
I think you would need more than a litre or starter at whatever gravity you're using, based on the expected initial gravity of a Belg. Abbey wort.
Unless you choose to under-pitch?

That will cost you just 2 cents...with rounding benefit, ummm... you can have it for free. :rolleyes:
 

Bats

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Have you used the Mr Malty calculator?
I think you would need more than a litre or starter at whatever gravity you're using, based on the expected initial gravity of a Belg. Abbey wort.
Unless you choose to under-pitch?

That will cost you just 2 cents...with rounding benefit, ummm... you can have it for free. :rolleyes:

Yeah I checked MrMalty.

It's not going to be a super high gravity Belgian. MrMalty recommended a little over a litre starter. My starter vessel can only hold a little over a litre so thats what I have to work with.

I'll get a bigger flask one day.

By the way, IOU 2c ;)
 

donburke

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depending how big your beer is, you can consider a larger og starter

maltose falcons had recommended a starter of 1.060 for big beers, i.e. 1.100 or more
 

Bats

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The only thing that has proven a bit tricky, is guessing what the OG of the runnings will be prior to boiling.

Obviously it's going to boil down to a higher OG but I can only measure gravity with a hydrometer. Refractometers would be good for this.

I'm taking a guess at the moment that the wort boiled down will give me a starter in the 1.030 to 1.040 range.

Fingers crossed.
 

Bats

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The only thing that has proven a bit tricky, is guessing what the OG of the runnings will be prior to boiling.

Obviously it's going to boil down to a higher OG but I can only measure gravity with a hydrometer. Refractometers would be good for this.

I'm taking a guess at the moment that the wort boiled down will give me a starter in the 1.030 to 1.040 range.

Fingers crossed.
I cooled the second runnings and did a Hydrometer. It was at 1.040.

I poured some into the boil kettle and diluted the starter to bring it down to 1.028.

Should get me within the range after I boil.
 

manticle

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Alternative for future, particularly if you no chill: At the end of the boil, after draining into your cube, take the trubby wort into a separate vessel, cover and let sit overnight. Decant clear wort off the settled trub into a clean sanitised vessel, bring to the boil again , cover and cool. Dilute if desired or use as is.
 

Wolfy

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depending how big your beer is, you can consider a larger og starter

maltose falcons had recommended a starter of 1.060 for big beers, i.e. 1.100 or more
From the "Yeast" book (page 133)"
"Brewers should not believe the myth that yeast become acclimated to high-gravity fermentation from a high-gravity starter, keep the starter wort gravity between 1.030 and 1.040."
 

mmmyummybeer

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I think using the second running's is a great idea. I agree with Wolfy after also reading Jamil's yeast book that 1030 to 1040 is a good starting gravity for yeast health. If the starter is composed of good numbers of healthy yeast with lots of sterols they will easily adapt to the higher gravity beer, as stated they don't need acclimatising to the higher gravity. I highly value Don's opinion as he always has great advice, however I have also read that If you go too high in gravity it will put more osmotic strain on the yeast and can stress them. In saying that 1060 would probable still work fine and may just be depend on the yeast strain. That's the joy of brewing you hear so much expert advice that can quite often be conflicting, which adds to the uniqueness of everyone's brewing procedure :D .
 

Bats

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I think it is going to be fine.

My starter is at 1.034 and just cubed the brew at 1.055.

I'll give the starter a day or 2.
 

micblair

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I did mine from 15 min into the boil, got a fair bit of debris in the starter at this stage, probably would wait for a hot break in future or use some sparge run offs.
Pitched the starter (2.7 L) into the main batch after about 16 hours. Cranking along nicely now.
 

donburke

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From the "Yeast" book (page 133)"
"Brewers should not believe the myth that yeast become acclimated to high-gravity fermentation from a high-gravity starter, keep the starter wort gravity between 1.030 and 1.040."

another yeast guru, mb raines has also said this on the maltose falcons website ...

MB states that for "normal" gravity beers a starter gravity of 1.040 is best.
For high-gravity brews, 1.060 is optimal
http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/thinkin...ewing-big-beers
 
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