Scotch Ale Recipe- Is This Too Much For Biab 20l Urn

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
Im thinking about giving this recipe a crack as I really like Scotch Ale. Just wondering if its a little too ambitious for BIAB in a 20 litre urn. The largest grain bill Ive done in my urn was around 5 kgs with an OG of 1.060, but this is 6.12 kgs and an OG of 1.075

Batch size is 18.9 litres and I can get around 17 litres from my kettle to cube so would add water to the fermenter to take it to 19 litres if all goes well and I get the correct OG. (Which I have in the past) however I recall reading on here that with High gravity beers you dont get as good efficiency when you sparge?

Scotch Ale

Batch size: 18.9 liters

4.536kg American Two-row Pale

0.907kg American Munich

0.454kg American Crystal 80L

0.227kg Briess Chocolate 350 L

6.12 kgs total

hops

use time grams variety form aa
boil 60 mins 28 Perle pellet 8.0
boil 40 mins 14 Willamette pellet 4.7
boil 15 mins 14 Goldings pellet 4.5
boil 15 mins 14 Willamette pellet 4.7
post-boil 1 min 28 Goldings leaf 4.5

White Labs Dry English Ale (WLP007)

Original Gravity 1.075 measured
(1.074 estimated)
Final Gravity 1.016 measured
(1.018 estimated)
Color 47 EBC / 24 SRM (Brown to Dark Brown) Mash Efficiency 79% measured
(76% used for O.G. estimate)
 

black_labb

Well-Known Member
Joined
16/2/10
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
121
I wouldn't be surprised if you were below your usual efficiency. What about doing an extra sparge into another pot you have available and do a second side boil instead of adding plain water.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
I wouldn't be surprised if you were below your usual efficiency. What about doing an extra sparge into another pot you have available and do a second side boil instead of adding plain water.
I usually do 2 sparges adding the first preboil and the second during boil in small doses and saving some for evap top up around 20 mins before EOB. So would I do a third Sparge and boil this seperately in another pot to add to the cube as top up?
Could I just boil this for the same time and not worry about adding hops etc?
 

black_labb

Well-Known Member
Joined
16/2/10
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
121
I usually do 2 sparges adding the first preboil and the second during boil in small doses and saving some for evap top up around 20 mins before EOB. So would I do a third Sparge and boil this seperately in another pot to add to the cube as top up?
Could I just boil this for the same time and not worry about adding hops etc?

That's what I'd do.

You could also take part of the first runnings in there and boil it down to caramelise the wort which would work well for a beer like this, but not neccesarily an improvement on the recipe. Because of the reduced volume I'd still do a 3rd sparge to get the volume up.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
That's what I'd do.

You could also take part of the first runnings in there and boil it down to caramelise the wort which would work well for a beer like this, but not neccesarily an improvement on the recipe. Because of the reduced volume I'd still do a 3rd sparge to get the volume up.
Cheers for that, I might do both. Ive been wanting to try caramelising the wort since manticle suggested it to me for another recipe.
 

Newbee(r)

Well-Known Member
Joined
8/10/09
Messages
261
Reaction score
1
If you are wanting high volume and decent ABV you could always add or substitute some of your base grain for some light malt extract - powdered or goo. There are many scotch ale recipe clones about, including in the Brewing Classic Styles book on Scotch Ales, that use this approach. I've done a couple this way and they worked out fine. It's worth tracking down a wyeast scotch ale yeast, these have a high alcohol tolerance and add a little flavour in the right direction too. Caramelising a couple of litres of the wort is pretty much essential for this style IMHO.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
I was going to try caramelization by pouring off 3 litres after mash into another pot and reduce it down to 1 litre with a vigirous boil.

However will this take longer than my 90 min boil of the wort?

Should I hold off starting my boil so the caramelization coincides with my end of boil?
 

manticle

Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Joined
27/9/08
Messages
25,707
Reaction score
6,123
Location
Glenorchy, TAS
When I caramelise, I use a fry pan (shallow surface area seems to evaporate well and not boilover, taller pots boil over very easily) and it takes about the same time as my boil. I take the wort from the kettle once it hits the boil but before adding first hops.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
I was also given a can of black treacle and was thinking of maybe adding this at some stage.

Would this be of any benefit and could I add this 20 mins before end of boil?
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
When I caramelise, I use a fry pan (shallow surface area seems to evaporate well and not boilover, taller pots boil over very easily) and it takes about the same time as my boil. I take the wort from the kettle once it hits the boil but before adding first hops.
Whats the best way to tell when its caramelized enough but not gone to far and burnt?

What sort of consistency are you looking for, a thick syrup like toffee, honey etc or still fairly runny?
 

black_labb

Well-Known Member
Joined
16/2/10
Messages
1,022
Reaction score
121
You won't go too far reducing 3L to 1L, and you won't get all that much caramelisation. Last time I caramelised some wort I boiled 5L down to just under 1 L and it didn't make much of a difference in colour. I was doing a double batch into 2 cubes and the caramelised wort went into one of the cubes only. The one with the caramelised wort was about 10 gravity points higher but the colour isn't all that different. I'd just keep an eye on it.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
Ok then I might start with 2 litres in the pan and keep adding more until Ive reduced a total of 5 litres down and see how that goes.

With the black treacle should I add this to the pan when caramelizing the wort or to the main boil?
 

manticle

Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Joined
27/9/08
Messages
25,707
Reaction score
6,123
Location
Glenorchy, TAS
Whats the best way to tell when its caramelized enough but not gone to far and burnt?

What sort of consistency are you looking for, a thick syrup like toffee, honey etc or still fairly runny?
Take a look at this thread for tons of info about caramelising wort. I think on page 5 I have a photo of the thickest toffee I've made and that's about as far as you want to take it before running the risk of burning the lot. Tons of other info in the thread too.

However as far as the thread title goes - my experience is taking a portion of total combined wort rather than first runnings gives a better result (had some odd head retention issues when I tried just first runnings - no idea if it was coincidental/incidental but total wort has not given me any issues).
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
Thanks guys been reading those links, lots of great information on there.

Manticle, Your picture gives me a good idea of the consistency Im after. We have a convection cook top which heats up bloody quick so it should do a good job of it.

What are your thoughts on adding some black treacle to the boil? From what Ive read there are a number of recipes that do this and it would probably suit the style of beer. But would doing caramelization and adding black treacle perhaps be over kill?

I was just going to add around 200 grams during the boil.
 

manticle

Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Joined
27/9/08
Messages
25,707
Reaction score
6,123
Location
Glenorchy, TAS
Never added treacle. I've had some delicious beers that use it but not used it myself.

Personal take, given what I just stated, is that it's always better to underdo stuff, learn what each thing brings, then re-do later, tweaking as necessary. I use this principle in cooking as much as I do brewing (ex-chef). Make sure the base ingredients are right and well treated, exercise some caution with extras until you know what they do and how much you want.
 

Truman42

Well-Known Member
Joined
31/7/11
Messages
3,966
Reaction score
605
Okay thanks for the advice.

Here is the recipe as Ive entered it into bewmate.

The Munich II is supposed to be Weyermann dark munich and the crystal 120 is supposed to be Simpsons dark crystal. The Briess caramel 60L I added myself and guessed the potential extract.
I found that when trying to search for the potential extract figures for these malts I only found them as a % figure and didnt understand how to convert them properly.
Consequently my EBC is 36.6 but should be 47. Im hopeing the caramelization will help that though.

The problem I do have is the IBU should be 32.2 and its 51. (especially as I no chill).

What do you think the maximum IBU should be for this style of beer and would I just decrease the 60 and 40 min hop additions only to achieve this? When I reduce the 60 min addition to 10 grams I end up with an IBU of 34.8, however as Im going to sparge two or three times to cover evap loss adding the last sparge towards the end of the boil I know I have to allow for this dilution. So would appreciate some advice on this one?

Thanks again..

brewmatescotchale.png
 

manticle

Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Joined
27/9/08
Messages
25,707
Reaction score
6,123
Location
Glenorchy, TAS
Don't get too technical unless you need to pass an exam. Drop the bittering addition so it sits somewhere in the region you like it. Again - if it's not quite right, tweak and change for next time.

In the mean time, read as much brewing science as you've a mind to understand - just don't let a lack of it stop you from brewing and learning through experience.
 

pk.sax

RIP bum
Joined
19/8/10
Messages
4,362
Reaction score
415
Just be careful with hops like galaxy. They're a bit less forgivin if overused. Low alpha hops (noble varieties and derivatives) seem to work out OK even if bittered a bit more than style.

I loved my last saison hopped with 90g of styrian for example but surely missed out on some of the subtle floral/fruity yeast characteristics so I'll just adjust for the next one. Agreeing with tickleman, too easy to get caught up in little things and be held back.
 
Top