Salami 101

[brettprevans]

Adding a localation may help know what u mean by local supplier.
A lot of guys on here specifically make their own so they dont need to use nitrates. Lots of info in this thread if you care to read it. Brendo are I are stuffing salami tomorrow or wednesday. Sausage casings so its not as thick and allows for meat to breath, no preservatives etc. Will be beautiful.

 

[QldKev]

Adding a localation may help know what u mean by local supplier.
A lot of guys on here specifically make their own so they dont need to use nitrates. Lots of info in this thread if you care to read it. Brendo are I are stuffing salami tomorrow or wednesday. Sausage casings so its not as thick and allows for meat to breath, no preservatives etc. Will be beautiful.

Throw up a recipe/how to for salami, including how to cure them. I've been wanting to give this a go for a long time.

 

[Whiteferret]

Throw up a recipe/how to for salami, including how to cure them. I've been wanting to give this a go for a long time.

Here are some threads I follow

salami

bacon

smoking

Have not done any myself and this one is now on my follow list too.
Will have too pull my finger out one of these days and build a smoker. :icon_drool2:

 

[punkin]

If you ask your butcher to get you some lesnies ham cure it comes in a 3 or 4 kilo bag. Has dilution instructions on the label. I use the Royal Ham Cure for Jerky.

 

[Aces High]

Adding a localation may help know what u mean by local supplier.
A lot of guys on here specifically make their own so they dont need to use nitrates. Lots of info in this thread if you care to read it. Brendo are I are stuffing salami tomorrow or wednesday. Sausage casings so its not as thick and allows for meat to breath, no preservatives etc. Will be beautiful.

Im just about to start making salami's also, and everything I read on the sausage making forums suggest that you really should use nitrate/nitrite. Do you use a starter at all CM2? How long do you hang them usually?

Do people have a source locally for Sodium Nitrate/Pink Salt? I got some Kwik Urit from the local butcher but it's not labelled with how much to use etc so i'd rather just buy a full pack myself.

I want to hang and cure some salamis is why I'm asking.

Scon, I've just ordered some off ebay from a place in Melbourne as I couldn't find anything locally in Perth.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/250-Gram-Cure-2-for-Fermented-Salami-and-other-Sausage-making-etc-/310470291123?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:AU:3160

 

[QldKev]

I've decided to join the salami mob. I just ordered a stc'ish humidity controller and a misting thingy and a 12v power supply from ebay all up for about $40, I've got a stc spare, pc fan and an old fridge. I'm copying "Gregs" design from a few pages back. In case your wondering why I'm not going to try and start making them in the winter air, it's winter now and it's currently 24c in my carport. Time to waste the arvo on google , maybe I should just invite Gregs over to teach me...

 

[Aces High]

Yeah cause peoplw had nitrates hundreds of years ago. People read the salami thread on ahb. More info on there than youll ever need. I did post a recipe on previous page for salami. If u arent using nitrayes then u have to do things diff so the meast can breath and dehydrate and not go rancid.

Horses for courses. If u want to use nitrayes then use them. I dont want to as its not needed. Same as cures in dausages are fkn ridiculous if if make rhem and freeze them. Each to their own

This is what im struggling with now... there is so much conflicting information out there. Once person says you don't need cure, just salt, the next says you'll die if you even look at raw meat the wrong way, its doin my freakin head in.

Ive been on different hobby forums which go ridiculously over the top when it comes to safety, to the point and they often scare the beejesus out of people for no good reason, but its just a matter of deciding for yourself based on all the relevant information where you draw the line.

I was reading on a meat forum of a guy who's made 100's of batches of dried chorizo without a problem....next poster "you're playing Russian roulette and you'll eventually make yourself and your friends very sick or dead" Who to believe...

 

[manticle]

A bowl of rice can kill you.

There are risks. Educate yourself about them, reduce the risks, make the ones you take calculated. Anything that will be cooked or is a whole muscle cut (pancetta, bacon etc) doesn't need nitrites/nitrates. Minced stuff that's cured, not cooked/heated is the stuff you need to look at. I know many people who make lovely salami without anything but salt but they do know what they are doing.

Been in the same boat myself - wanting to make salami without additives but not wanting to kill anyone I give it to. Hopefully going to observe/help with a bunch of people who annually do up a whole pig (I'll supply a keg or two and get my hands messy). Have some pink salt cures so will make up my mind whether or not to use them once watching other people's methods.

 

[punkin]

Just do a risk assessment. I'd suggest if you're feeding uncooked meat to kids or other people and you think there is a possibillity of harm (and it's pretty severe harm when it goes wrong) then use a cure. If it's only going to be eaten by yourself (and a consenting partner who is also educated about the risks) then don't if that's what you choose.

I didn't use to use cure in my Jerky, thousands of other people don't, but when i started selling it the addition of cures were a no brainer. Made it taste better too

It's cheap, it's considered harmless in small doses and it's peace of mind.

 

[scon]

So this is my understanding of the whole nitrate thing:

1. nitrates change the colour and flavour of the meat - think unsmoked bacon vs salt pork.
2. nitrates are not needed when you are curing whole muscles unless you are doing it for flavour..
3. the time when you want to consider doing it for food safety reasons is when you are mincing meat and then holding it at low temperatures for a long time, the botulism spores are found on the outside of the meat and need a low or no oxygen environment to thrive, so when you mince and mix meat you're putting them into that sort of environment. If you are then curing them at room temperature or cold smoking them, then you need to make the decision whether or not to use nitrates.

Me? I like the flavour and the colour that nitrates give to cured meats. I have never heard of someone getting nitrate poisoning but botulism poisoning does happen, so for me it's a no-brainer.

Anyways, thanks for the links, I'll buy some from that ebay guy.

 

[benno1973]

Yep, I'm same as you scon. I use nitrates in my bacon and ham, because while I don't need to for a food safety thing, it makes it taste like bacon and ham. I forgot to put it in the Xmas ham and it tasted ok, but more like roast pork. Then again, I make salami most years with my neighbour, who has made it many years with his Italian family. There's no way that they use nitrates/nitrites, but that's their call, and I make it their way. It's delicious, and I have no problem with eating it.

CM2 - what do you mean when you say "If u arent using nitrayes then u have to do things diff so the meast can breath and dehydrate and not go rancid."? We've never done anything differently when omitting nitrates.

 

[brettprevans]

There's disc in the salami thread about makin thinner salami instead of fat ones to compensate for the reduction in curing agent.

 

[scon]

Yeah, so if I knew someone who was making Salami, and they didn't put nitrates into their Salami, I'd have no problem with eating it, however, I like the taste, and I'm going to be serving it to other people, so I want to be safe.

That being said, the Guanciale hanging under my house is only cured in salt and pepper, and should be ready soon.

 

[benno1973]

There's disc in the salami thread about makin thinner salami instead of fat ones to compensate for the reduction in curing agent.

Oh righto, I get it. Yes, I thought you meant more something different in the process. Quicker water reduction times helps for safety measures.

 

[pcmfisher]

I think its a no brainer to use nitrates for all dry cured products, ie ones that do not require cooking, smoking or refrigeration.
Yeah, you can do it without them, but why would you?

You can make beer without sanitising your fermenter and get away with it most times. Why would you?
You can make wine by letting it ferment from wild yeast, but once again why would you?

Nitrates are not going to hurt you considering the natural occuring type found in spinach and celery in large amounts.
Botulism is nasty shit.

 

[benno1973]

Yeh, on that note, I bought nitrate-free bacon a while ago for my sis-in-law. Tasted like regular bacon, and had that pink tinge to it that cure imparts. I'm guessing that they added celery salt/seeds to the mix, which is adding nitrates without having to declare it. I understand it's pretty common for nitrate-free products to include this.

 

[Fents]

I think its a no brainer to use nitrates for all dry cured products, ie ones that do not require cooking, smoking or refrigeration.
Yeah, you can do it without them, but why would you?

You can make beer without sanitising your fermenter and get away with it most times. Why would you?
You can make wine by letting it ferment from wild yeast, but once again why would you?

Nitrates are not going to hurt you considering the natural occuring type found in spinach and celery in large amounts.
Botulism is nasty shit.

You ask any old italian family if they use nitrates when making salami / curing meats....The answer will be 28grams sea salt every time.

When was the last time someone died from a confirmed case of salami botulism?

 

[benno1973]

Yeh, while I regularly use nitrates/nitrites, I think that the counter argument to "botulism is nasty shit" would be "cancer is nasty shit". I can see why people don't want to use them, it's certainly a personal decision about weighing up the risks. There's many other hurdles that can be employed to counter cb.

 

[benno1973]

Just took down some Sopressa from the curing fridge. This tastes delicious, done from a recipe from Len Poli's site. I upped the salt a little (he had around 1.7%), but it still could do with a little more. They're completely covered with white mould - I gave them a spray with a p.candidum spray just after I hung them.

 

[tanukibrewer]

Looks good Kaiser, what beer will you pair with it?