Salami 101

[Thunus]

"And your not much better Thunus! is that a pulled pork your doing with plenty of smoke"

Plenty of pork pulling around here AndrewQLD B)

 

[gregs]

"And your not much better Thunus! is that a pulled pork your doing with plenty of smoke"

Plenty of pork pulling around here AndrewQLD B)

Could you guys please jerk your pork in private! :lol:

 

[Mercs Own]

Yep, 3% is what we use. Weigh it, don't just guess.

In the lead up to sausage making, I went to a course run by Vince Garreffa of Mondos the other day. Some great info passed on, including:

• 3% salt. Use of cure is optional, although required by law for the big producers.
• Use a female pig, as male pigs (unless castrated early) smell.
• Mould isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some schools of thought are that mould will prevent the sausage from drying out too quickly.
• If you have cold nights but warmish days, stick the sausages in the fridge for a week before hanging them. This encourages the formation of the mould on the sausages. When you take them out of the fridge, they will be tacky and a day or so after you hang them they'll form some mould on them, and prevent the sausage from drying too quickly.
• If you want to encourage good salami mould, take the rind from an existing mouldy salami, and put it in a spray bottle with some water for 24hrs. Then spray this on the drying snags.

Hey Kaiser, what was the cost of the course???? And what if anything did you take away apart from knowledge??

There is a course down my way this weekend but at $500 for the two days and no take home goodies I am thinking whilst it would be great to do it is a little on the expensives side.

Good job Gregs!!!

Went looking for my salami recipe today and couldnt find it!! :huh:

 

[benno1973]

Hey Kaiser, what was the cost of the course???? And what if anything did you take away apart from knowledge??

The course was $80, and was well worth the money. On the night we got big Vince talking for 4 hours and demonstrating everything, including cutting into 3 carcasses to show us the difference between the different ages of pork. Additionally, we got to eat some biltong, chorizo, coppa, dried sausage, smoked fresh sausage, smoked pastrami, along with a couple of glasses of wine and some salad. His wife also made a dessert, and we got to take home some salted pork mince (for brekky the next day), 2 italian sausages prepared, ready for hanging and drying, a section of pork belly pancetta all ready for hanging and drying, and some fresh chorizo.

 

[benno1973]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice on either of the following situations:

1. My pepper sausages have decided not to dry. The chilli sausages have dried beautifully, but the pepper sausages are hard on the outside and squishy within. It's not the environment they are drying in, as they're both hanging in the same spot. It's not the amount of salt - each pile was weighed and had an equal amount of salt applied. I think it may be the skins - we ran out of ox-runners during the chilli sausages so made an emergency trip to the butchers to buy more for the pepper ones. Its possible that these didn't get washed as thoroughly as the first batch, and still had salt on them causing the casing to dry first and trap moisture in.

Anyhow questions as follows:

• Are these safe to eat? They had around 3.5% salt added to them, but no nitrites/nitrates.
• Given that they are still safe, can I just vaccuum seal them and store them that way, or do I need to treat them like fresh sausages and freeze them?
• Is there an alternative, such as soaking them and re-drying them?

2. The chilli sausages are drying beautifully, but with 3.5% salt, they taste like eating a salt lick. I've heard of people soaking their sausages to reduce the salt and redrying them - has anyone done this? Anyone know how it can be done?

 

[Fents]

cracked a couple of mine last night and im just flawed at how good they taste. first "june" batch we thought had dried out to much but old may royce cryovaked them and they have turned out wicked, not to dry not to soft. Big hit of chilli and fennel to keep the tastebuds amused.

the other "july" batch are near on perfect, little bit more mostuire hardly any chilli and NO fennel!

any one keen for a bit of swapsie's?

 

[Mercs Own]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice on either of the following situations:

1. My pepper sausages have decided not to dry. The chilli sausages have dried beautifully, but the pepper sausages are hard on the outside and squishy within. It's not the environment they are drying in, as they're both hanging in the same spot. It's not the amount of salt - each pile was weighed and had an equal amount of salt applied. I think it may be the skins - we ran out of ox-runners during the chilli sausages so made an emergency trip to the butchers to buy more for the pepper ones. Its possible that these didn't get washed as thoroughly as the first batch, and still had salt on them causing the casing to dry first and trap moisture in.

Anyhow questions as follows:

• Are these safe to eat? They had around 3.5% salt added to them, but no nitrites/nitrates.
• Given that they are still safe, can I just vaccuum seal them and store them that way, or do I need to treat them like fresh sausages and freeze them?
• Is there an alternative, such as soaking them and re-drying them?

2. The chilli sausages are drying beautifully, but with 3.5% salt, they taste like eating a salt lick. I've heard of people soaking their sausages to reduce the salt and redrying them - has anyone done this? Anyone know how it can be done?

The fact that both salamis are the same - salt, drying conditions etc would point to the skins as you said - how ever what liquids did you use in the salamis? were they the same - wine? Paprika paste?

If they are dry on the outside and squishy in the middle I would say they are a lost cause - if they are squishy it could be because they are still wet and havent dried as the same time as the skins or it could be that they werent stuffed firmly and they are squishy due to air pockets in them also either way the end result is the same - BIN THEM.

If the skins are hard then moisture can no longer get out - they will not dry and could in fact turn nasty I wouldnt risk mucking around with them. How long have they been hanging? This is my opinion and I am no expert - there are guys here that know more than I (Fents what say you or your Italian connections?) Why dont you ring and ask the guy you did the course with for his opinion if you havent already.

 

[Fents]

sorry guys i cant offer advice im still a novice but yea if the liquids were all the same (merc knows the deal, wine and paprika paste ) then they should have dried evenly which leaves you with the skins problem. i wouldnt be trying to rehydrate at all, if in doubt throw em out.... bit of meat is not really worth 2-3 days in bed crook in the guts and shitting at both ends or worse no more shitting at all ever again...dead.

edit - cut one open and compare the "softness" to your good chilli ones....if there is any airholes/pockets defiantly piff them.

 

[Mercs Own]

Peels, Kirem, AndrewQld???? wot say youse?

 

[benno1973]

Yeh, thanks guys. Liquid added to both was just wine, although this wasn't measured so could have been different for the chilli than for the pepper. They have been hanging around 3 weeks, so I'd say that they are not going to dry any further, given that the skins are dry.

Just so you know, the question about being safe to eat wasn't meant as eating them in their current state. I'd cook them and use them that way. Possibly in pasta sauce or soups or something like that. Actually, before thinking of the possible risks and posing the question, I cooked one up and added a tin of tomatoes and it tasted great! However if the general consensus is that they aren't safe, I'll bin them.

 

[Mercs Own]

Yeh, thanks guys. Liquid added to both was just wine, although this wasn't measured so could have been different for the chilli than for the pepper. They have been hanging around 3 weeks, so I'd say that they are not going to dry any further, given that the skins are dry.

Just so you know, the question about being safe to eat wasn't meant as eating them in their current state. I'd cook them and use them that way. Possibly in pasta sauce or soups or something like that. Actually, before thinking of the possible risks and posing the question, I cooked one up and added a tin of tomatoes and it tasted great! However if the general consensus is that they aren't safe, I'll bin them.

Better safe than sorry

 

[gregs]

Peels, Kirem, AndrewQld???? wot say youse?

It would be interesting to note the PH of the two batches as PH has a great influence on drying. The recipe can have an influence on PH as dose the bacteria (Bactolactilious) and the total fermentation time and temperature.



PH should not be second guessed, it is an important proses in the drying of salami.

 

[benno1973]

Yep, I'm fairly new to this, and so far have followed my neighbours advice, which seems to have been handed on through traditional italian relatives, without much explanation of the whys and wherefores! Anyway, I've sent an email to Vince (the guy who ran the course), but at this stage I'm thinking that they are headed for the bin.

Not too worried - I did a quick head count and there were only about 10 large salamis, so not enough to be too concerned.

BTW - Merc, I checked a pepper sausage and it didn't have air pockets. It's just the residual liquid that hasn't dried making it squishy.

Thanks for all your help everyone!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Mine have stopped drying out I think... They seem to be going nowhere fast after 4 weeks or so now. They are I think "just" dry enough. They sort of shifted inside the skins, with the bottom half ending up thicker than the top - so the top halves have dried perfectly, and the bottoms are less perfect. They aren't squishy and look cured all the way through, but the top half is better and you can actually taste the difference between the really well dried bits and the less dried bits... With the well dried bits tasting saltier and better.

I've eaten two of them so far in the interests of research... My verdict is "not bad for a first try" they are a little fatty, and I think that's because I didn't have the fat cold enough when I minced it and a decent proportion emulsified rather than cutting... The cut bits have gone nice and white and glossy... But there is a lot of oil floating around too that I think is from the emulsified fat. Less fat next time, and better technique on the minced. Also not quite salty enough and too much garlic. Still, they are good with cheese and crackers so what more could you ask for.

They look upsettingly like large poos though... Visually very unappealing. I will tie and hang them differently next time.

Thanks for this thread... I see many salami in my future.

TB

 

[Mercs Own]

Mine have stopped drying out I think... They seem to be going nowhere fast after 4 weeks or so now. They are I think "just" dry enough. They sort of shifted inside the skins, with the bottom half ending up thicker than the top - so the top halves have dried perfectly, and the bottoms are less perfect. They aren't squishy and look cured all the way through, but the top half is better and you can actually taste the difference between the really well dried bits and the less dried bits... With the well dried bits tasting saltier and better.

I've eaten two of them so far in the interests of research... My verdict is "not bad for a first try" they are a little fatty, and I think that's because I didn't have the fat cold enough when I minced it and a decent proportion emulsified rather than cutting... The cut bits have gone nice and white and glossy... But there is a lot of oil floating around too that I think is from the emulsified fat. Less fat next time, and better technique on the minced. Also not quite salty enough and too much garlic. Still, they are good with cheese and crackers so what more could you ask for.

They look upsettingly like large poos though... Visually very unappealing. I will tie and hang them differently next time.

Thanks for this thread... I see many salami in my future.

TB

TB I would like to see a photo of them hanging to understand what happened to them. If you packed them tight enough when stuffing them there wouldnt really be any where for the meat inside the skins to run or slide down to the bottom half of the hanging skin? Needless to say what you want is for your salami to dry evenly throughout the whole sausage.

Also when you initially mix all of your meat with all of the spices pastes and liquids etc you leave it for a couple of days before stuffing during which time it firms up and becomes quite sticky making it very unlikely to run down inside the casing??

 

[benno1973]

Also when you initially mix all of your meat with all of the spices pastes and liquids etc you leave it for a couple of days before stuffing during which time it firms up and becomes quite sticky making it very unlikely to run down inside the casing??

Hey, that's something I was told not to do by Vince! Having said that, talking to friends who make salami, they mix in the evening, leave it overnight, and stuff in the morning, and they make a fantastic sausage, so I'm a believer. What's the science behind leaving it for a bit? And before stuffing, do you re-mix it?

 

[AndrewQLD]

Peels, Kirem, AndrewQld???? wot say youse?

Sorry Mercs, I've been away with the fairies these last couple of weeks and missed this.
However gregs is the guru of Charcuterie as far as the Bundy Brewers are concerned and his advice below I think is spot on.

It would be interesting to note the PH of the two batches as PH has a great influence on drying. The recipe can have an influence on PH as dose the bacteria (Bactolactilious) and the total fermentation time and temperature.



PH should not be second guessed, it is an important proses in the drying of salami.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Thirsty Boy]

How do you measure the pH of a meat paste? PH strips obviously, but we all know their limitations and I have read one or two info sources that suggest strongly using a pH meter instead... But for the life of me I can't work out how to use my brewing pH meter on a meat paste.

Tips, hints??

Merc... I think perhaps I didn't stuff the cases firmly enough. I was planning on mincing straight into the cases... So i cut the meat up into a fairly small dice, added spices etc and mixed it all up, then let it sit overnight. Minced next day. Once again attempting to mince straight into the casings was a total disaster.... So I minced and stuffed separately.

 

[Mercs Own]

How do you measure the pH of a meat paste? PH strips obviously, but we all know their limitations and I have read one or two info sources that suggest strongly using a pH meter instead... But for the life of me I can't work out how to use my brewing pH meter on a meat paste.

Tips, hints??

Merc... I think perhaps I didn't stuff the cases firmly enough. I was planning on mincing straight into the cases... So i cut the meat up into a fairly small dice, added spices etc and mixed it all up, then let it sit overnight. Minced next day. Once again attempting to mince straight into the casings was a total disaster.... So I minced and stuffed separately.

I mince once then add in all the spices, salt, paprika paste etc then mix by hand to make sure it is well mixed through then mince again and leave it for a day or two before stuffing. Leaving it for a day before stuffing lets it have its ferment and makes it set or become a little thicker so you can stuff it firmer.

All that said I am no expert at all in fact I completely stuffed my salami this year!!! I bought 10 kilos of pork that my butcher also did the first mince for me. I was supposed to pick it up on Sat but couldnt - I went to brunswick to get my Paprika paste. Didnt get there till monday. Pork went straight into my fridge no probs. I got busy, real busy - I am writing a beer cookbook so I have been cooking and experimenting like mad!! Friday came and I thought oh %&@^ I gotta do the pork so I mixed up all the spices got the pork out of the fridge and openned it up and yep it smelled like something had crawled in there and died. So 10 kilos went in the bin and the spice mix is sitting in the cupboard for when I make some Pork and Fennel Sausages. Way to burn $150.00!

Live and learn.

 

[gregs]

We can make salamis or cured meats and be successful without knowing what is actually happening within the product. We can argue about the uses of nitrites and nitrates Vs salt only, but theres much more happening in the meat than can be explained in a short answer, like PH etc.

Like all things in life, the greater the understanding we have of what you are trying to make the more successful we will be. So for those who are interested, and like to read up on a topic Ive attached a paper, one of many Ive read over the past couple of years, so enjoy.
View attachment Salami_advice.zip

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Thanks for that Gregs,

I'vegot some books and read a bunch of stuff too.. But that paper seems to be the most readable of them, whilst still covering the topic reasonable comprehensively. Thanks very much.

Also explains the technique for measuring a meat paste's pH... Which had me stumped.

Cheers mate

TB

 

[gregs]

Cut this coppa yesterday, its the first whole mussel Ive cured, Im happy with the results although I need to work on the flavour as its quite mild.

 

[Fents]

yea our should be right soon too.

did you roll it in pepper?

 

[gregs]

yea our should be right soon too.

did you roll it in pepper?

Yeah Fents rolled it in pepper and fennel seed but I feel I didnt get the ferment happening as it should. I now have the correct cultures sitting in the freezer to inoculate the next batch.

Cheers.gregs.

 

[gregs]

A batch of Soppressa about to go into the curing chamber.
It's great to be able to make salami all year round.

 

[winkle]

A batch of Soppressa about to go into the curing chamber.
It's great to be able to make salami all year round.
View attachment 40927

Damm that looks good.

 

[Katherine]

Cut this coppa yesterday, its the first whole mussel Ive cured, Im happy with the results although I need to work on the flavour as its quite mild.
View attachment 40400

That is my fav cured meat.... looks good! But yes I like it hot.

 

[AndrewQLD]

A batch of Soppressa about to go into the curing chamber.
It's great to be able to make salami all year round.
View attachment 40927

Had a taste of this on the weekend, absolutely fantastic, has that beautiful tang you can only get from a fermented product.
Great work Greg.
By the way, humidity/temp controller arrived today so will have the fridge setup soon.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[gregs]

Had a taste of this on the weekend, absolutely fantastic, has that beautiful tang you can only get from a fermented product.
Great work Greg.
By the way, humidity/temp controller arrived today so will have the fridge setup soon.

Cheers
Andrew

Good work on your curing chamber Andrew, :icon_chickcheers:
I was wondering when you would pull your finger out, as you know we have some very happy pigs fattening. :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

 

[AndrewQLD]

Good work on your curing chamber Andrew, :icon_chickcheers:
I was wondering when you would pull your finger out, as you know we have some very happy pigs fattening. :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:

Ran the system today Greg and used this temperature/humidity data logger to see what the results were, nothing in the chamber so there will be variations when it's full of salami but this will give you a rough idea. You can see when the fridge compressor kicks in and the humidity starts to fall, but it doesn't take long for it to raise back up.




Andrew